Spies

[WarpStorm]

You guys are forgetting the most important use for them, having F3 tell you exactly what you are going up against before committing to a war, instead of his typical, wildly inaccurate, "I think their military is bigger than ours" advice. This feature is free (except that it can cause a war when you plant him).

[SomeOneElse]

one of my early games, i attempted to plant a spy in germany. i forget why. he was discovered, and bismark the b@stard declared war. soon swarms of panzers decimated my empire, and i learned

only use spies in extreme cases, there are other ways to get similar information for less of a price

[Panag]

hi ,

a spy is usefull to see the status of the other guy's military , ..

have a nice day

[Carver]

Originally posted by WarpStorm
You guys are forgetting the most important use for them, having F3 tell you exactly what you are going up against before committing to a war, instead of his typical, wildly inaccurate, "I think their military is bigger than ours" advice. This feature is free (except that it can cause a war when you plant him).

And if you're playing for a space win you need a spy to tell you the enemy's space ship progress (unless you're clear ahead in tech).

Planting a spy in all major civs is a must-do for me, and definently worth the cost. Now, the price of specialized operations (steal tech, troop positions) is rediculous. there is no way I'll pay those prices. Which is a shame beacuse troop postitions would obviously be huge tool.

Incidently, I don't think subs should appear when you steal troops locations. During the cold war no one knew exactly where US subs were located except for a few people on board. The naval commanders assigned the ship an approxamate area of operations and mission, but no one stateside knew their exact location.

[Gen.Dragolen]

Civ3 Editor

Originally posted by Mannamagnus
Is there no way we can edit the cost of espionage missions ourselves?

Mannamagnus,

Crack open the editor and you can adjust the settings to your taste.

Most of the operations can have their cost lowered by a factor of 10 or so. If I remember correctly, the cost is partly based on what your income is each turn. To use the changed settings, you will need to use the "Load Scenario" option when go to start the game. You should get a warning message that the game settings have been changed.

I found the espionage ridiculuously expensive and the whole setup for it felt like an after thought when the realized the shipping deadline for the game was coming up. The should have kept with the SMAC style and feel...

[Winterlord]

When I first started playing Civ 3, I never used the Embassy feature of stealing tech, or bothered using spies.
At this point where I am more comfortable with most aspects of the game, and especially since I play a couple of level higher then when I started, I find I use Spies quite a bit now.
If I go for a Tech like Democracy, to the exclusion of Gunpowder, I just steal Gunpowder from an enemy. If they just got it recently, and I'm not planning on attacking them anytime soon, it's not as if a stack of 50 Musketmen will appear next turn anyway.
Even if my spy screws up, I can just wait a turn or two and offer something like Printing Press to normalize relations.
In the Modern Age, it is even better. When I am busing industrializing (building Factories in my five top producers) and the AI has similar techs, I know it will begin Wonder Work before it builds a Factory. Plant a spy, do your research, find out where the WOW is being built, and blow it to KC.
If I am going to attack an enemy in the Modern Age (common situation for me ), I always utilize Spies first. If planting it causes a war, no great loss. If successful I can mess them up bad, and use my forces more effectively. I don't know how many times I have found that a city I want turn out to be garrisoned by a single unit. I only need a couple of attacker rather than using a massive stack. Frees up a lot of troops.
I definatly agree that Spies are expensive, but if by that time in the game (if you are a Democracy or Republic) you should have a good cash flow, so it doesn't ever bother me.
What does the fact that by that point also, every AI Civ has switched to Democracy anywho, so the I can never use propaganda.
If you want to see Spies most effective, switch to Communism for a while. Even though Spies are no longer units, Communism still gives "Veteran" Spies.

[Catt]

I'll add my voice to the very large crowd of folks who believe that espionage missions are far too expensive -- I cannot imagine a mission that is worth its typical cost. When I was playing a modded version, I even used the editor to tone the cost down considerably -- still not cost-effective in most situations.

These days (unmodded games) I find the spies useful only for: (1) checking the exact force composition of a rival; and (2) if the space race is close, keeping tabs on a rival's progress. The one exception to the "overpriced" nature of espionage, IMHO, is propaganda. If your target civ is in a more oppressive form of government than you (best is anarchy between gov switches while other civ at war), has an attractive city that is far distant from its capital and shares a common border with yours, and is culturally a light-weight compared to you, propaganda can sometimes take that city you desire without war and without too great a cost. This is a very limited exception however.

Like others, because of the relatively high risks of getting caught planting a spy, I tend to do so when already engaged in hostilities, or into civs with whom I have active trades (on the theory that war is less likely if the civ is getting a luxury or other resource from me).

Catt

[dunk]

I always plant spies, even if I don't use them. I figure that I can always use them later if I need to.

I have modded the costs of the missions down considerably. I haven't really gotten into espionage yet, so I'll probably end up adjusting them again.