It's just sad that the AI is not so good

[vee4473]

response to original post

This is to the original post from jimmytrick.

You say that the AI only defends with a handful of units even though it has hundreds????

In every game I have played, the AI threw every last unit it had against me. I specifically remember getting pissed because I thought that a stack of 8-10 units could withstand any attack the AI could muster. But then, I was waiting for about 10 minutes as the AI just advanced many dozens of units onto my forces.

My conclusion is that if the AI has the forces to kick your ass, they WILL use them.

"Handful of units out of hundreds"......bah...maybe the CD I got is programmed differently from yours.

[Capt Dizle]

Maybe it is. I have never had a strong position overun in the modern age. I have seldom had a strong position assaulted except in counterattacks, which sadly, are launched piecemeal.

Maybe there is some random element at work. I am still waiting to see some of these miracles.

[The Pioneer]

I have seen the AI use his RR, Privateers, Ships to bombard my coast, Units that it withdrew with 1hp for healing, massive attacking, diverting attack, upgrade its units, build a lot of city improvements and many more little things that make me go WOW!

Now that looks to me as an improvement from Civ 2 but that was never the question right?! But the AI is the best I have seen, sure it can be improved, everything can and will. But for the purpose of the game the AI is very good.

The AI should be improved when it comes to assesing a potential threat, its "diplomatic" & "foreign affairs" ministers should also be able to see more than balck or white.

Last but not least some of the things that we don't like about the game we can mod and like Civ2 make it more unique in that it will be adjusted to our playstyle.

I find that great. Thanks Firaxis for giving us the best Civ as of yet and of course for listening to our board!

[Deathwalker]

THough I do not aggree with all the complaints about the AI I do think it could have been done a lot better.
Also it is the one thing Fraxcis does not seem interested in adding to in patches or exspansion packs

[DeepO]

Originally posted by panag
its intresting to let the AI and you start sometimes with 4 techs and 1000 gold , you learn a lot from it , ....

a lot can de done with putting the default level of the AI at deity , .....

maybe I'll try it once. However, the early game still is most intimitading to me, I'm a bit hesitant to make matters worse by adding technologies from the start... one of the biggest goals in ancient times is to keep up with technology, or at least to not get hopelessly behind.

BTW, I made a mistake earlier; I was playing at emperor, not monarch. Haven't tried monarch in while, but somehow I'm still confusing the two.

DeepO

[SpencerH]

I think that one of the factors in how the AI fights wars is its calculation of its strength relative to you. If the AI is "stronger" it will perform specific actions that it wont do if "weaker". In my very first game of civ3 (1.07) the AI used arty effectively (it was way ahead). After that I've rarely seen it (possibly because I'm not so far behind strength-wise). I've also seen the AI use a coordinated battleship-marine-land unit attack, again the civ that did that was attacking a vastly weaker force. After that success it attacked me with the same strategy and almost broke through my defenses.

[Panag]

Originally posted by DeepO


maybe I'll try it once. However, the early game still is most intimitading to me, I'm a bit hesitant to make matters worse by adding technologies from the start... one of the biggest goals in ancient times is to keep up with technology, or at least to not get hopelessly behind.

BTW, I made a mistake earlier; I was playing at emperor, not monarch. Haven't tried monarch in while, but somehow I'm still confusing the two.

DeepO

hi ,

, no problem , so do you find there is a clear difference between level's , some people try to say it's not , ....

one thing is clear , the AI is somehow the best at his "deity" level , it seems that when you start with the same amount of units , either 1 or 25 , the AI is more intresting at the deity level , ....

what do you say , ....

have a nice day

[Blake]

One (very simple!) thing I would like to see is making the AI a tad less mechanical when it comes to diplomacy. I move a unit into AI territory, it is guaranteed to ask me right away to "get the hell outa here", I would much rather it did it randomly, say a 40% chance of asking you to leave for every turn your in the territory, note that %age should be higher for agressive civs and lower for less-agressive civs. Also it'll still only ask once, then wait for a random number of turns and evict you....

[Panag]

Originally posted by Blake
One (very simple!) thing I would like to see is making the AI a tad less mechanical when it comes to diplomacy. I move a unit into AI territory, it is guaranteed to ask me right away to "get the hell outa here", I would much rather it did it randomly, say a 40% chance of asking you to leave for every turn your in the territory, note that %age should be higher for agressive civs and lower for less-agressive civs. Also it'll still only ask once, then wait for a random number of turns and evict you....

hi ,

, its always intresting that when you move one square inside his territory the AI start to scream "fire" , ...but when he does it with you , you have to ask them many times before they do , .....

that should be fixed , or there should be more options to that .

when you ask the AI a certain number of times he declares war , and in between his attitude towards you becomes , well , "less positive" , .....but your attitude towards him can not be changed , ...

have a nice day

[Geekinstein]

A few thoughts...

It took over 50 years for 1000s of programmers to build an AI that could defeat the best human at Chess, and Chess has very few moves to program (on only an 8x8 board to boot) compaired to Civ III or any other wargame for that matter. Been there, done that...

However, it is possible to use the latest in Decision Science, Game Theory, and Statistics to design a game that can defeat most humans (and learn from them, BTW). Since you control all the rules in the design (not possible in Chess), you simply design the game to make it the hardest for humans to work against (people do NOT think statistically) - but this simply has not been done in Civ III.

Can a much better AI be designed? Absolutely; the US military has done some of this, but it will take a new game design, probably from the ground up.

But the real question is, will you (the general public) keep playing an AI that kicks your a$$ every time like the best Chess games do today? ...I think folks might not.

People like to win...

[The Pioneer]

Originally posted by Geekinstein
Can a much better AI be designed? Absolutely; the US military has done some of this, but it will take a new game design, probably from the ground up.

But the real question is, will you (the general public) keep playing an AI that kicks your a$$ every time like the best Chess games do today? ...I think folks might not.

People like to win...

Right on Target. I do not think that it would be any fun to get my butt kicked every time.

The AI is not perfect but it's a very good one and give s a decent challenge, if it was much harder or it could learn from playing I would have to stop playing because:

A. As stated above it would be kicking my butt.
B. and more importantly, I cannot afford a divorce at this time

It's not as bad as some people make it look. It's just a game, a game that I love and have played for more than a decade now.

[Blake]

But, the AI could really be improved quite a bit by a little bit of randomness here and there.... it's too mechanical... and unnessecarly so. Particulary at lower difficulty levels it could afford to use some "sub optimal" decisions thus making it appear more 'human', at higher levels it would also help to avoid some abuse which relies on the AI always working exactly in a particular way.

[The Pioneer]

That is true Blake, it would give the game a whole other dimension!

Firaxis is reading these Forums though and by now I think that this aspect of the AI is clear enough and since they listen and implement a lot I hope that they will be able pull another ace from their sleeves and improve this part of the AI in an upcoming patch or xp.

[jshelr]

At last I can make a constructive suggestion

_______________________________________
The AI is not perfect but it's a very good one and give s a decent challenge, if it was much harder or it could learn from playing I would have to stop playing because:

A. As stated above it would be kicking my butt.
B. and more importantly, I cannot afford a divorce at this time
_________________________________________


A. What you want is the illusion that your butt might be kicked. If you know it's not going to be kicked, that's no good either. By the modern age, the AI is not nearly the threat it was in the earlier ages. So, the end game gets dull.
B. If you think you can't afford a divorce now, it only gets worse as you get older

[Panag]

Originally posted by Geekinstein
A few thoughts...

It took over 50 years for 1000s of programmers to build an AI that could defeat the best human at Chess, and Chess has very few moves to program (on only an 8x8 board to boot) compaired to Civ III or any other wargame for that matter. Been there, done that...

However, it is possible to use the latest in Decision Science, Game Theory, and Statistics to design a game that can defeat most humans (and learn from them, BTW). Since you control all the rules in the design (not possible in Chess), you simply design the game to make it the hardest for humans to work against (people do NOT think statistically) - but this simply has not been done in Civ III.

Can a much better AI be designed? Absolutely; the US military has done some of this, but it will take a new game design, probably from the ground up.

But the real question is, will you (the general public) keep playing an AI that kicks your a$$ every time like the best Chess games do today? ...I think folks might not.

People like to win...

hi ,

, agreed but there is a drawback with "learning" , in most cases when you shut the comp of , or start a new game the comp cant remember what it has learned , .....

however , in Japan and Israel , they are having some nice idea's , they put a game on a DVD-RW , a part is the game , and the rest is room for the AI , actually a part where the AI can write its findings and next time it can use them , or change them .

with the use of the DVD-RW , you can take your special game , and AI with you , ......

have a nice day