Diplomacy

[dexters]

I'm trying to get out of my warmonger mindset and play a combination of a sinister ruler using diplomacy to get what I want. And found to my horror, I can't grasp how AI civs think of me.

I engage every AI civ I've met with trade, usually trading them my Wine resource, giving them good terms. And their position usually go from (annoyed) to (polite) But I find that few turns later, these same civs go back to being (annoyed) and currently, China has managed to sign up 8 or 9 civs against me in a trade embargo.

I'm dumbfounded as to the reason why. Although I did wipe out the Germans, and fought 3 wars with the Zulus, first two wars they started the third I started. And the current war I'm engaged in was declared against me by the babylonians. I don't think I'm being aggressive, but who knows.

I can't possibly be expected to give civs something every turn to keep them happy...

For those of you with more experience using diplomacy and playing diplomatically, any suggestions, comments and the like?

[W4r_Machine]

I'm a warmongerer but I can still play the diplomacy at the same time, thanks to some brilliant strategist here in this forum.

I don't break any treaty I sign and don't go to war just for the hell of it. I usually ally up with the 2 strongest(next to mine) before I go to any war...that way you eliminate the chances of then teaming up against you or backstab you. I make sure everyones happy by trading them gold and goods so trade embargo will not be used against you OR sign a trade embargo against them before they could do it to you.

[edit=I don't raze cities either, that reflects to your reputation]

[dexters]

Hmmm. I haven't razed any cities nor have I broken any treaties, unless if you consider declaring war breaking a treaty. I've been engaged in 5 wars total, 4 of which were declared on me.

[ShredZ]

I know EXACTLY wut you mean, the ONLY thing i can think of to rationalize their behavior in the games that I play is this: You must be trading with Chinas enemies, somehow they know and dislike you for being nice to the civs they hate. I could be way off but it makes sense and I think I might have read something about it...

[Jaybe]

Having trades, treaties and agreements with civs seem to make them friendlier towards you. I usually notice that most other civs have RoP agreements, and that seems to bond them together. Even frequent map trades helps.

(No, I do not personally sign RoP's willy nilly).

[W4r_Machine]

AI's are like Women, unpredictable and nasty when irate.

[SomeOneElse]

If you sit back and just build, the AI perceives you as weak and easy pickings. You have to establish yourself militarily before they take you seriously diplomatically

[Catt]

The AI wants to win (or at least make the human player lose ). If you are the leading civ, and especially if you are in a dominating position, the AI will be much less friendly to you. You represent the threat. It can be very difficult to maintain good relations with all when you're the only superpower, regardless of your willingness to trade and sanctity of you word.

Catt

[Ninot]

i find Diplomacy vital in every way (being the Foreign advisor of the demo game helps...)

but seriously. Whenever im not at war with a civ, i will do just about everything to make them polite to me. This means especially giving away useless techs. As long as they dont get a military advantage from a tech, i trade it away zippedy-split!All for the sake of diplomacy.

[dexters]

Makes sense. I am the superpower. But I thought the AI remembers all past actions, including good ones. or does the fact that being so powerful override everything?

[W4r_Machine]

AI do remember your past actions, even the non-existant once.

One game I played where no one would trade a RoP because apparently I have broken one. I never signed one with anyone so I was surprise. Until now I haven't signed RoP(going 20 games now)

[dexters]

Well, there might be a reason why they won't sign an ROP with you other than you broke one. are you a super power too?

[Coracle]

Originally posted by Catt
The AI wants to win (or at least make the human player lose ). If you are the leading civ, and especially if you are in a dominating position, the AI will be much less friendly to you. You represent the threat. It can be very difficult to maintain good relations with all when you're the only superpower, regardless of your willingness to trade and sanctity of you word.

Catt

In otherwords, the game is in reality THE HUMAN VS. THE WORLD. All AI civs work TOGETHER to find ways to screw the human. That is unrealistic, non-historical, makes for a frustrating quirky game, and is not what I paid for.

[Catt]

Originally posted by Coracle


In otherwords, the game is in reality THE HUMAN VS. THE WORLD. All AI civs work TOGETHER to find ways to screw the human.

No - that's not what I said. I believe that I have observed the same phenomenon with a leading AI civ (I wish I could see AI attitudes to other AI civs). The many smaller AI civs seem to go to war with the "big daddy" AI civ more often too. Admittedly only my empirical observations, but you have only empirical observations to support your view as well.

That is unrealistic, non-historical . . .

Well, I normally stay well out of the "reality vs. game features" arguments, but just this once . . . Maybe it's my biased view as an American, but it seems to me that an awful lot of people from across the globe (and their governments) have an unfavorable view of the US precisely because we seem to be the "dominant civ."

And, ending my foray into the "realism" arguments game, I would just note this chat excerpt (from the CivFanatics chat last Friday) from Jeff Morris of Firaxis:

Novaya> "All right -- cool. I have another question: it doesn't take ships YEARS to travel the globe. Will transports or modern ships be able to traverse large bodies of water in 1 turn in PTW? Navy loses a lot of functionality in the modern eras because of this."

Jeffrey_Morris_FIRAXIS> Nova: From a balance point of view no. There are a million instances of realism taking a backseat to play mechanics, and that's just one of them.

. . . makes for a frustrating quirky game, and is not what I paid for.

May be true for you. Not me. Sorry you wasted your money.

Catt

[MarkG]

that goes in the quotes too

Novaya> Will transports or modern ships be able to traverse large bodies of water in 1 turn in PTW?
Jeffrey_Morris_FIRAXIS> No. There are a million instances of realism taking a backseat to play mechanics, and that's just one of them.

i'm this close to making "IT'S JUST A GAME" t-shirts...