AI and slightly modded units - good news

[Catt]

I've been playing "standard rules" for some time now, but previously experimented with mods and came up with something I liked and, like Solver's experiment, something that the AI used. Similar to Solver, I modded BBs and Aegis Cruisers to carry 1 and 2 cruise missles each, respectively (nothing but cruise missles). Nuclear subs carried 4 missles (nukes or cruise missles). Cruise missles had a range of 4. Regular subs carried 4 foot units (but not missles). Marines and paratroopers had slightly higher A/D stats, 9.7 and 7.9, respectively. Helicopter carried 4 foot units.

Results: AI used nuclear subs to carry cruise missles (and generally used cruise missles more than without the mod). Still didn't see any marine amphib assaults or helicoptered pts, but did see airdropped pts (i.e., launched from a city with an airport). Perhaps most interesting -- added a real wrinkle to the game -- was the AI wasn't shy about using subs to secretly land raiding parties of 4 infantry into my core empire -- this can be quite a surprise when you've left some cities totally undefended!

Was hoping to see the AI use several subs to carry marines to a coastal city and attack amphibiously, but didn't happen -- maybe with Solver's increased marine strength.

Catt

[SpencerH]

Originally posted by FrantzX
I think I remember Vel saying something about how the AI get evil if you make a ground unit with hidden nationality. Any comments on this?

There are a number of old threads about this. I think that the consensus was that AI did use them quite well, but humans could use them better than the AI (of course) which is a little unbalancing. I stopped using them for that reason but they're fun for a while.

[Panag]

hi ,

Solver , can you make the AI start with ceratin units , just to see what he does with them , ...

some people have tried to put new units in , surpise , the AI trew them out , ...

have a nice day

[Solver]

Panag, no.

Catt - I forgot to mention Helicopters, too! They carry 4 units for me now, and I saw the AI build them, didn't see it use them, though. But that's a lesser changed compared to the others.

[Panag]

Originally posted by FrantzX
I think I remember Vel saying something about how the AI get evil if you make a ground unit with hidden nationality. Any comments on this?

hi ,

one good thing is to make the explorer "hidden" , however there is a catch , the AI seems to know where he is coming from , the AI can contact your civ , when he had no contact with you before , true "hidden nationalty" , .......so in fact when you attack the AI knows who does so , and after a while gets less happy about you , ...

have a nice day

[DeepO]

Aha, 5HP regulars, thanks! Which should mean 6HP marines, as I can't imagine you build units without barracks. Whow, that's a lot of power, no wonder the AI uses them

I find it very interesting to see that the AI more or less uses it like it is intended, so these routines are definately there. I wonder why Soren didn't include an additional, tweakable parameter which would give amphibious assault an extra reward, so the AI uses them from time to time, even unmodded. As it is now, combat is too linear. ADMs of marines shouldn't be compared on a ADM basis with infs.
And, even if he specifically has said that the AIs are all one kind of blend to make a more balanced AI, instead of all with different accents, such a UseMarinesMoreOften parameter could be changed with different AI personalities.

Does the AI also uses marines with normal, 3HP units? Probably not...

The reason why I don't mod the units is because I find it very tricky to make something balancing. Like the 2 move workers, of course I'd like it, but it would be too much. And sorry to have this negative note to an excellent thread, but somehow I feel like your marines are too powerful because you love the little guys

DeepO

[Panag]

Originally posted by Solver
Panag, no.

Catt - I forgot to mention Helicopters, too! They carry 4 units for me now, and I saw the AI build them, didn't see it use them, though. But that's a lesser changed compared to the others.

hi ,

, 4 is a bit much , 2 works out fine , together with a higher cost .

have a nice day

[Willem]

Originally posted by FrantzX
I think I remember Vel saying something about how the AI get evil if you make a ground unit with hidden nationality. Any comments on this?

Yes, that certainly can be the case. I've done that in my game, and sometimes it works to well. I'll end up with wave after wave of those rascals occasionaly. The AI seems to take an "eye for an eye" approach with them. The more I use them, the more of them it builds. I had a look at India's empire once when we still that cheat, and at least 2/3 of his cities were building them. And he had a sizable empire at the time. I would have had a steady stream of them attacking me for quite sometime to come.

[Willem]

Originally posted by panag


hi ,

one good thing is to make the explorer "hidden" , however there is a catch , the AI seems to know where he is coming from , the AI can contact your civ , when he had no contact with you before , true "hidden nationalty" , .......so in fact when you attack the AI knows who does so , and after a while gets less happy about you , ...

have a nice day

Not a good idea, I tried it. What's happens with 0 units that are hidden is they become invincible. The AI can't attack them or do anything to them. In fact, I've seen an AI unit on the same square as the Explorer, just like stacking my own units. I could walk around his entire empire, pillaging every single improvement on his land, and it wouldn't be able to do a thing to stop me. Way to much power, unless of course you like to win the easy way.

PS At least that was the case with patch 1.17. They may have fixed that since then, I'm not sure.

[Willem]

Originally posted by SpencerH


There are a number of old threads about this. I think that the consensus was that AI did use them quite well, but humans could use them better than the AI (of course) which is a little unbalancing. I stopped using them for that reason but they're fun for a while.

It's that way with all units in the game though. Just becasue I can utilize my Artillery pieces better than the AI, does that mean they should be removed from the game as well? I've added them to my game, and I like them. They certainly keep me on my toes, and I've even lost a few cities to them. Mind you I always reload the game when that happens, and grumble while I'm doing it. I don't like them that much.

[SpencerH]

Did you notice that Ptw might have one of these types of units? They said they were playtesting a hidden nationality "partisan".

[Solver]

It's called a Guerilla. They've already agreed that it will be a weaker infantry, and want to Hide Nationality for it now, but are checking if the AI can handle it.

Admittedly, I doubt it's a good idea. I fear that Cold War will be too easy then - mass Guerillas and send them sitting on resources and pillaging without any diplomatic casualities.

[Panag]

Originally posted by Solver
It's called a Guerilla. They've already agreed that it will be a weaker infantry, and want to Hide Nationality for it now, but are checking if the AI can handle it.

Admittedly, I doubt it's a good idea. I fear that Cold War will be too easy then - mass Guerillas and send them sitting on resources and pillaging without any diplomatic casualities.

hi ,

maybe lethal air bombardment would fix that a bit , ...

have a nice day

[Solver]

Maybe yes. But I still feel that this would be one of things overpowered a bit in hands of a human.

[rhenric557]

Yeah, I agree it is too overpowered for human players. I used them in a mod of mine. I wound up conquering alot of AI cities without having to declare war and with out retaliation from the AI.

It may work well against human players though, but it has to be an expensive unit. And maybe give it a bombard range of one and Attack of 1 so it can't be used to take cities unless they are unmanned.