Sioux city names vs. Iroqouis city names

[monkspider]

Looking back on the old Sioux names from Civ 2 i have decieded that I actually prefer them, as they have much more of a "native american" feel to them so I have recently added them to Civ 3 through the magic of the editor. And call me crazy, but I personally think "Little Bighorn" is cooler for a capital than some minor city in New York (Salamanca).
For those who are interested, here are the Sioux city names.

Little Bighorn
Wounded Knee
Cedar Creek
Slim Buttes
Three Forks
Stony Lake
Killdeer
Bear Paw
Big Mound
Wood Lake
Dead Buffalo
Point of Rocks
Raging Brook
Running Bear
Silver Moon
Wildcat Valley
Great River
Seven Brothers
Snake Canyon
First Wind
Yellowtree
Chief's Crag
Morning Rock

[notyoueither]

I always thought Salamanca was a city in Spain.

[Jethro83]

A lot of places in the world are called Salamanca, or have Salamanca in their names. Heck, I've even seen places in Australia called Salamanca.

But the main one seems to be the city in Spain.


Anyway, back on topic, I definitely agree that the Sioux city names do have a more native American feel to them than the Iroquois cities.

[monkspider]

Yep exactly, Salamanca is a very famous Spanish city, and this will no doubt create a conflict or two come PTW.
I suggest all Civers switch over to the Sioux city names and avoid this bleak future.

[Ribannah]

Originally posted by monkspider
Yep exactly, Salamanca is a very famous Spanish city, and this will no doubt create a conflict or two come PTW.
I suggest all Civers switch over to the Sioux city names and avoid this bleak future.

The original name of Salamanca, NY is Bucktooth.

But having Salamanca as the capital is absolutely ridiculous anyway: the town was not even founded until 1854! The true capital of the Iroquois capital was and is Onondaga, which doesn't even appear on Firaxis' city list .....

The namegiving of Iroquois cities is not unsimilar to that of the Sioux (and other North Amerinds), but of course you don't see that if you don't speak Iroquois.
Still, some of the towns (also) have names in European languages which should appeal to you, such as: Oil Springs, Buffalo Creek, Saint Regis, Brantville, Lac des Deux Montagnes, Catherine's Town, Salt Saint Louis, Grand River, Ogdensburgh.

Personally, I prefer names like Ganaraske, Teyagon, Akwesasne,
Cattaraugus, Saratoga, Allegany, Buckaloon etc. over their translations.

[SpencerH]

Could any of the Lakota cities/towns you name actually be considered as such?

[eewolf]

i think that a fair job was done for city names for the iroquois (actually the "iroquois" people called themselves Haudenosaunee. the algonquin called them the Iroqu, a slur meaning rattlesnake, and the french added the ending). i found this out here: www.tolatsga.org/iro.html along with many other interesting things.

perhaps firaxis could answer why they chose the capital city name. seems odd. but the souix names from civ ii are mostly english translations and only have "native" flavor for 20th century educated "immigrants" like most of us.

the link above has a long list of village names for different peoples belonging to the iroquois nation. adding those to the list of cities (or replacing them) would be a good choice (IMNSHO).

anyway, it is good that the game is adaptable, no?

eewolf

[Dinner]

The real question is why where the Iroquois included when the Inca or Maya weren't...

[Inverse Icarus]

oh, so Iroquois is really based on a slur, greeeeeeeeat, now i'll get flamed by the OTers for saying it.

[Jethro83]

Originally posted by Oerdin
The real question is why where the Iroquois included when the Inca or Maya weren't...

*sigh*

Don't start that again.

[Ribannah]

Originally posted by eewolf
i think that a fair job was done for city names for the iroquois (actually the "iroquois" people called themselves Haudenosaunee. the algonquin called them the Iroqu, a slur meaning rattlesnake, and the french added the ending).

Actually the origin of the word 'iroquois' could be a little different.
The rattlesnake story is popular, no doubt spread by the French, but the truth is that the word 'irokwa' (same pronounciation as 'iroquois' in French), in the language of the Haudenosaunee, means 'they who smoke' which is a rather accurate description. The word was used for them by the Hurons (iroquoian language) when the French first heard about them, but by that time the French had already named another tribe 'tobacco nation' (the Petun) so they made up something else.

[Ribannah]

Originally posted by Oerdin
The real question is why where the Iroquois included when the Inca or Maya weren't...

Nah, we shouldn't give the Americans all of North America on a platter!

IMHO they should have included Iroquois, Maya and Tiahuanaco (which includes the Inca rule), and dumped the Aztecs who had very little merit in comparison.

[eewolf]

Originally posted by Ribannah


Actually the origin of the word 'iroquois' could be a little different.
The rattlesnake story is popular, no doubt spread by the French, but the truth is that the word 'irokwa' (same pronounciation as 'iroquois' in French), in the language of the Haudenosaunee, means 'they who smoke' which is a rather accurate description. The word was used for them by the Hurons (iroquoian language) when the French first heard about them, but by that time the French had already named another tribe 'tobacco nation' (the Petun) so they made up something else.

do you have some links or references for this? i love history and digging in to separate the myths and facts (not always easy or possible). i will now be searching myself for more data about the Haudenosaunee and the origins of the name Iroquois.

you seem to be quite well read on these subjects. that is only going to lead you to trouble, you know.

[Marquis de Sodaq]

Originally posted by Ribannah
Actually the origin of the word 'iroquois' could be a little different.
The rattlesnake story is popular, no doubt spread by the French, but the truth is that the word 'irokwa' (same pronounciation as 'iroquois' in French), in the language of the Haudenosaunee, means 'they who smoke' which is a rather accurate description. The word was used for them by the Hurons (iroquoian language) when the French first heard about them, but by that time the French had already named another tribe 'tobacco nation' (the Petun) so they made up something else.

Are you spreading this bunk here, too? ALL native tribes use(d) tobacco, how can that be an appropriate name for any particular tribe? And why would the french 'spread a story' about the name origin - which they likely used for a long time before even knowing what it meant?

The insult of "snake" is the rightly accepted name.

[Marquis de Sodaq]

Originally posted by Ribannah

Nah, we shouldn't give the Americans all of North America on a platter!

IMHO they should have included Iroquois, Maya and Tiahuanaco (which includes the Inca rule), and dumped the Aztecs who had very little merit in comparison.

The Inca were not a tiahuanacan people...