Supply lines for units

[Coracle]

Good idea supply lines. However. . .

The Civ 3 AI is not exactly a bright bulb as it is. It couldn't handle it even if any unit in enemy territory was considered out of supply UNLESS on road. or unless workers built a new railroad to it. Hell, this AI can't handle NAVAL trade routes being interdicted by subs and privateers (doesn't happen).

I think it might also slow down an already slow game.

I don't think it's practical, although a nice thought.

[wrylachlan]

Originally posted by Spiffor
As a builder, I'm against the idea. It will bring more micromanagement in the military part of the game, and I feel there is enough already.

But if you are building, not attacking, you shouldn't have to worry about supply lines. It is only the warmongers who will have to deal with the micromanagement when they invade enemy territory. And since it is the warmongers who are looking for more diverse military strategy, I bet they wouldn't mind.

And there is a problem : what about ancient / medieval wars, when there aren't roads everywhere ? Until late XVIIIth century, logistics played a minor role, troops rather took food directly from the land they occupied.
It seems that such an idea will greatly add to the late game tedium (increased micromanagement, increased waiting time)

The easiest way to implement it in terms of the ancient medieval problem is to have each unit have a supply number which indicates how much it needs the suppy network to survive. Set the ancient units to zero, and no problem, they forrage off the land. Set Modern Armor to 5, and for every turn out of the supply network they temporarily loose 5 attack points... or something like that. Bottom line being that the play balance stuff could be worked out.

As for it adding tedium, yes the increased waiting time is a severe problem, but if it was worked out (super-efficient code or all civ players buy new CPUs) then I don't think the micromangement would be a problem, since you would only see it when you went on the offensive, primarily, so you builders wouldn't be troubled.

[Zachriel]

Re: Supply lines for units

Originally posted by Sava

Supply Lines:

They work like the trade system where a unit needs to have some kind of contact with the rest of the Civ. Units that don't will lose a HP per turn and then become unusable (not dead) until supply line is made available again.

Your proposed method would eliminate the extensive pathfinding algorithm for determining supply of units in the field. Now it is "just" a gameplay issue.

They would have to keep near their cities to stay in supply. If they ventured too far without capturing each city in turn, they could be cut off from their supply. On the other hand, isn't this how most wars play out in Civ3? Each city in turn?

[Mikel]

Supply lines were one of the most debated features in the compilation of the Civ Wish List as I remember. people were discusssing everything from what constituted supply to how it could be implemented. I even remember a length debate on how to include Command and Control to some sort of supply structure.

In the end I think Firaxis tried to introduce something that gave us the tactical options the gamers were looking for with the simplicity of a Civ idea : Strategic Resources. The only issue is that they messed up the implementation by not correctly balancing the units and allowing builds to continue even after the resource has been lost which almost entirely defeats the purpose. They also missed out on giving us the tools and the feedback to make these strategic decisions ( like an easy fun way to implement Naval blockades http://apolyton.net/forums/showthrea...threadid=52183 ).

Now I know this doesn't allow small armies to cut off large armies and defeat a larger enemy in the way everyone has discussed, but if you would allow me to throw the Firaxian persuasion method back out there....

The enemy throw the bulk of their attack force into your territory and start to attack the border cities. The units take damage, which they can't start to recover until they retreat or take a city. Rather than meet them head on you send your smaller army to take a mountain that contains their only source of iron. Now if this stopped all production of iron dependant units that turn then you could be sure that few reinforcements would be on their way to help that invasion, and so that enemy army will die from the law of diminishing returns.

This doesn't help if the attacking army is so large it can power through your country without the need of reinforcements, but could you really have cut the supply of an army that outnumbers you by so much anyway?

[Zachriel]

Originally posted by Mikel
The only issue is that they messed up the implementation by not correctly balancing the units and allowing builds to continue even after the resource has been lost which almost entirely defeats the purpose.

When starting a new unit, the resources are allocated and set aside. This is a normal pipeline procedure. Destroying a mine does not destroy all inventories in the pipeline.

[Zachriel]

Re: Re: Supply lines for units

Originally posted by Zachriel
Now it is "just" a gameplay issue.

After reflection, I believe it would be too easy to exploit the AI. In addition, depending on the exact model chosen, there may still be problems with path calculations. Each unit must not only consider its attack orders, but must also keep track of how many turns to the nearest road.

Probably not until Civ4. Computers will be faster then too.

[Mikel]

Originally posted by Zachriel


When starting a new unit, the resources are allocated and set aside. This is a normal pipeline procedure. Destroying a mine does not destroy all inventories in the pipeline.

I can't argue with the realworld scenario that you have pointed out, but if this was changed it would IMHO allow greater strategy depth within the game. It would be far more worth while taking out strategic resource if you know that it stops any new units of type X being created. On the flipside you would think far more seriously about taking and holding a resource if you knew that it wasn't enough to hold it for one turn and set all of your cities to build X then retreat. I think these tactics will be especially appreciated by the Multiplayer community.