Multiples of the same resource

[nato]

Wow, I guess experiences really vary. I am playing the default game, so I didn't up resources, and I always have tons of iron and horses, and pretty much everything else.

For later appearing resources its probably play style. I have about half of the world's land by the time a lot of them show up.

For iron and horses however, I still only have a normal amount of land. And I get tons of them. I am really mystified by comments asking iron to be increased. I think there needs to be less. Maybe even less than 1 per civ.

[Martock]

actually Alpha Wolf 64, i did just that many moons ago. i wanted to see just how much trading and such i could get going if i increased the frequency of ALL the resources occuring. clustering turned out to be a big mess with the average of 16 (!!) resources being in just one area. so i toned it down some but still above the defaults. i like the system i have now. lots of resource trading, especially with luxury resources as well as some strategic ones. i also took the liberty to make them all more productive. meaning that some add to food production, others to shield production, etc. lastly, almost every unit now in my game requires at least 1 type of resource, if not 2...some 3 (mostly modern units). in my opinion, it makes for a more interesting and challenging game.

[nato]

Sounds like some very cool ideas Martock.

As always, the big question: how is the AI dealing with the changes?

[Martock]

actually the AI seems to have little or no problems with the changes. i've noticed that if it lacks one or more of the resources to make, say Infantry (which requires 3 resources), it will offer $$$ thru the roof for it. some units don't require any resources, like riflemen. i did that to prevent archers or warriors, etc from popping up in the modern ages.

in my present game, i'm involved in a big world war with 3 nations per side. i'm currently embroiled in a land war with the Romans on their island (just east of mine) and i've noticed that they have attempted many times to take a smaller city that had oil and a larger city that had rubber. they ignored the other cities, that were not as heavily defended and in one case, just next to a large force. it would appear to me that the AI is trying to reclaim those resources.

[star mouse]

Iron and horses are plentiful so you are likely to have some in the early game before the whole map is covered in cities. Uranium is scarcer, one per civ usually, because by the end game the map is all cities and there's usually one or two dead civs.

Imagine if there was only one iron per civ. To get Iron in the early game, you would often had to build a city or colony waaaaaay over there and connect it to the rest of your empire with a reeeeeealy long road. A lot of people wouldn't like it, and any civ who happened to have iron in the radius of a core city would have a huge advantage. Ample supplies of horses and iron make the early game more balanced.

Iron and horses are not really that useless. All resources in the game act like bonus resources, with food, shield and/or trade bonuses. I always love having a core city with Iron in its radius because of the production boost the Iron tile gives.

[The Viceroy]

Star mouse,

I have problems with Iron & horses (as you imagined) .. and in many games, there is only 1 per civ ..

I have mod'd the map to be 255x255 for huge, and if you pick just 2-4 civs to play, you get so few resources.. I often never find an Iron source until the modern/industrial era's ..

I also often pick Archipelligo/mid setting .. what land types are you picking ..

I have had some games where Iron & Horses have been easy come by, but its the exception not the rule .. I can only assume that the mod has done this .. or Archipelligo setting is .. most annoying.

[nato]

You have some good points star mouse; let me reply...

Iron and horses are plentiful so you are likely to have some in the early game before the whole map is covered in cities. Uranium is scarcer, one per civ usually, because by the end game the map is all cities and there's usually one or two dead civs.

Imagine if there was only one iron per civ. To get Iron in the early game, you would often had to build a city or colony waaaaaay over there and connect it to the rest of your empire with a reeeeeealy long road.

Yes, it has occured to me that iron and horses are super common because they come early in the game.

However, there is one major problem with this logic: the entire world is already colonized very very early in the game! I don't think there would be any major problems getting iron if there was less of it ... actually, shouldn't there be some problems getting it? Doesn't making it easy to get defeat the whole point?

All making them common does is ensure everyone gets one with no trouble. Again, musical chairs with more chairs than people.

Iron and horses are not really that useless. All resources in the game act like bonus resources, with food, shield and/or trade bonuses. I always love having a core city with Iron in its radius because of the production boost the Iron tile gives.

That is a good point, also something that has occured to me. My first thought was to significantly increase the food/shield/trade bonuses that they give you. This is probably what I will end up doing someday.

However, corruption is a problem. Unless it is in your core cities, all that bonus will just be corrupted to nothing. That is why I think it would be very cool to have some sort of un-corruptable bonus, like say 10 gold per turn, for every extra resource you control. This way iron and horses in some far off area would still be valuable to you.

Like I say, the resources are there and a major part of the game, lets make the very most of them!

[MiloMilo]

I'm not sure there should be less iron or horses... the units they allow are pretty basic, I wouldn't want to totally deny civs the chance to make them... but I would want to make civs work for them. Maybe some amount of clustering would help? As it is, with 12 (or however many) single separate sources of iron for 8 civs, everyone will easily get one. But if they appeared in pairs, suddenly there are only 6 locations for 8 civs... (let's get ready to rumblllle...)

In effect, this would be like decreasing the amount appearing, while increasing the usefulness of each "source" (i.e. you might have one "source" in your borders, but it would give you two tiles to work, use and trade.)

I played a game where only 4 oil sources showed up... and 10 civs were left! My main rival was crashed into the dark ages and gobbled up. It quickly became very boring, and I left it unfinished. Lesson: fewer sources than civs is about as bad as more sources than civs. If those 4 sources provided 8 useable/tradable tiles however... things would have been much more interesting.

[YuMMz]

I would take the extra Iron just for the terrain bonuses. I mined iron/coal hill is very nice for production! Even with corruption the resource should get you at least some improvement. Also has anyone ever gotten coal and iron in the same city and built the iron works? I have played about 15 games and I never get coal and iron in one city radius ;(.... ahh someday.

[Slax]

I think under standard settings, the resource allocation is about right. On average, I have to fight for one resource per game, while I have the others in my territory. This seems perfect to me.

[star mouse]

Originally posted by nato
However, there is one major problem with this logic: the entire world is already colonized very very early in the game!

Depends how early in the game we're talking about. I'm referring to the time when Iron Working and The Wheel are discovered for the first time. It's usual for the map to have plenty of uncolonised squares at that time. Even with plentiful iron and horses, I usually have to stretch to get some quickly.

Originally posted by The Viceroy
I have mod'd the map to be 255x255 for huge, and if you pick just 2-4 civs to play, you get so few resources.. I often never find an Iron source until the modern/industrial era's ..

I guess that's your punishment for playing on a huge map with few civs. Try increasing the appearance ratio for these resources if you like playing with only a few civs. I prefer fairly standard settings (standard map, 8 civs), so I don't have resource problems. (In my current game, I only occupy 20% of the land but I have 4 Uranium, half the world's supply!)

Originally posted by MiloMilo
I played a game where only 4 oil sources showed up... and 10 civs were left!

This is a common problem with Warm/Wet maps with the latest patch. If you also make Oil appear in Plains and Jungles, as I have, then every map you make will have ample oil. In general, adjusting the resources so they can appear in a greater variety of terrain will make their appearance more reliable.

[MiloMilo]

Starmouse, the map was wet, though not warm (I like rivers...). I thought more would show up in tundra...