a solution to blitzkrieges

[Stuie]

I finally discovered a use for my non-upgradeable Legions: I line my borders with them. Kind of my own version of the Roman Limes used by the Empire on the norther border. The benefits are:

1. No freely wandering AI units in my territory.
2. Any land attack immediately hits a wall of troops.
3. Sometimes the Legions actually win.

Now I'm only in the Industrial Age, and the French still seem heavily reliant on Musketeers, so this should work for now. We'll see how it plays out.

Oh, and no landmines for me, thanks. I think the inability to use enemy roads/rails is penalty enough in foreign territory without adding mines.

[Solver]

Planetfall, I was imagining what would it be like if it existed.

[ShredZ]

I think the inability to use enemy roads/rails is penalty enough in foreign territory without adding mines.

One might say there might already be mines there, and thats one reason that it takes so long to get thru enemy territory right ? I would assume that any defending nation would do whatever it could to slow its invaders...

How about we just assume mines are there, planting them would be too much stuff - instead - why not just build fortifications and plant a bunch of guys in there, when the computer tries to walk by them you get free pot-shots on them, and if they choose to attack, its there lose...

[rhenric557]

I usually just leave my interior cities fairly undefended while my border and outpost cities are over defended. leaving my cav. and other offensive units back for a counter offensive. Once attacked they rarely have enough offensive units to take the city in question on the first thrust leaving a great number of units in reserve to counter the remaining enemy units left on my territory. I then immediately destroy all improvements just over my borders to slow any further attacks. doing this I once destroyed over 150 mech. attacking a lone outpost on an enemy held continent. For some reason during that game none of the AI's would build Armor just mech???? Needless to say it took for ever to get my next turn.
Another point is that the AI rarely attacks with no warning. He is almost always atleast annoyed with you prior to attack. So if you don't want a war with him you had better keep his oppinion of you in good standing.

[zulu9812]

Originally posted by planetfall
Agree with most, landmines are unnecessary. There are enough tools available without landmines, consider
1- relocating empire to more defensible geography

relocate your empire!

[Whoha]

"1 cant build everywhere forests (mountains etc) and anyway that gives the attacker a defensive bonus as well (when his troops are on that forest you have the counter attack problem )
artilary also succeeds less on forest located units.actually a forest can be more a bonus to the attacker in some cases
a landmine imp will make them stop (or damaged) without getting any benefits
2 there should be some reward for hard work in fortification of borders as well . it should be harder to attack a enemy that worked hard on his defences than the mere 'lucky' one (sorrounded by jungles.. )"

Mountains work great as well, he gets prevented from moving, as in civ3 roads and rails are not usable by an enemy force.Do not believe that any civ that is surrounded by jungles is by any means a "lucky" one, that is one of the most worthless starts in the game, and in any event with the forest strat you will require alot of workers terraforming, placing forts, rails, forests,etc as you will have to build rails for your troops, and forts on deserts and flood plains, and perhaps forts on key mountains that you wish to prevent the enemy from taking or landing on.

The really evil thing here is that a forest will take 2 movement points away. Any 3 move attacker will move off of the forest, and onto a square in which they have no defensive bonus as it is the ai. But even if he stops on the defensive terrain, you have a situation where it is cavalry with an attack of 6, vs cavalry with a defend of 3 + the terrain bonus and with no possible retreat. Or you have tanks with attack of 16 vs 8, or 24 vs 16. Unless of course you would like to fight those cavalry, reinforced with defensive troops and possessing the defensive bonus that cities which used to be in your possession will grant.

[rhenric557]

If they are in a forested area, or hills/mountains. Just surround them with defensive units of your own, Bombard him as much as you can and them let him attack your fortified units. Sure you'll loose some but not as much as if you were attacking him. The AI will always attack units it feels are a threat to him. I do the same thing with Amphibious landings. Land a **** load of defensive units on land with a defensive bonus, hills, forest mountains especially. Then let his army kill itself off while you keeps drawing his good units out to die.

[Stuie]

Originally posted by rhenric557
For some reason during that game none of the AI's would build Armor just mech????

They added flags so the AI could use a unit for defense AND offense. They flagged Infantry and Mech Infantry for both, and now the AI doesn't think it needs tanks. I went into the editor and set Infantry and Mech Inf to defense only for my current game. Results should be available after this evening (I'm only a few turns away from Tanks....).

[rhenric557]

Yah, I noticed that and made the same fix.

[dovlvn]

Originally posted by rhenric557
If they are in a forested area, or hills/mountains. Just surround them with defensive units of your own, Bombard him as much as you can and them let him attack your fortified units. Sure you'll loose some but not as much as if you were attacking him. The AI will always attack units it feels are a threat to him. I do the same thing with Amphibious landings. Land a **** load of defensive units on land with a defensive bonus, hills, forest mountains especially. Then let his army kill itself off while you keeps drawing his good units out to die.

that may be a good idea for the current AI. vs a better AI (in ptw)
or humans it wont work that easily.

[dovlvn]

Originally posted by Whoha
The really evil thing here is that a forest will take 2 movement points away. Any 3 move attacker will move off of the forest, and onto a square in which they have no defensive bonus as it is the ai. But even if he stops on the defensive terrain, you have a situation where it is cavalry with an attack of 6, vs cavalry with a defend of 3 + the terrain bonus and with no possible retreat. Or you have tanks with attack of 16 vs 8, or 24 vs 16. Unless of course you would like to fight those cavalry, reinforced with defensive troops and possessing the defensive bonus that cities which used to be in your possession will grant.

vs a human (as I hope it'll be in a few months) forests will not be good enough. just 1 possible tactic:bombard with bombers the forest squares till they go back to orginal condition, then let the attacking units through
land mines will also show a basic fact of warefare in mod times (somewhat missing in civ):direct attacks on well fortified cities are horrendesly expensive no matter how little forces you actually use for defence (see stalingrad mogadishu etc) because of damage from defences (bobytraps snipers etc)

[dovlvn]

Originally posted by ShredZ


One might say there might already be mines there, and thats one reason that it takes so long to get thru enemy territory right ? I would assume that any defending nation would do whatever it could to slow its invaders...

How about we just assume mines are there, planting them would be too much stuff - instead - why not just build fortifications and plant a bunch of guys in there, when the computer tries to walk by them you get free pot-shots on them, and if they choose to attack, its there lose...

landmines are free potshots which enable you to put those defensive units where they are supposed to be- in the cities not out side waiting like lame ducks. as for assumptions the movement constraint doesnt show land mines -it show incompatible rail systems (as happen to nazis in russia) antway no unit gets damage by the movement (as landmines certainly do)

[King of Rasslin]

Fortresses are enough: there is already a blitzkreig defence.

Remember in Civ 2 where you could use your enemy's roads? THAT was a blitzkreig. Now, the defender has 3x the mobility with roads. Railroads are a game imbalance that should be removed

Never has a nation been able to use all of its forces in all places at once

The blitzkreig is nearly impossible to do like it used to be. The game really is more balanced (and the AI much smarter) than in Civ 2. I think railroads should give 1/5 movement points, and roads give 1/2. The 3x mobility is very high for defenders, it should just be 2x. Railroads shouldn't be teleporters

[Cyclotron]

A defense should never stack up in the cities; anyone who does that deserves to be eliminated. You need a mobile, in-the-field defensive army, and a feature like "landmines" should not be included just to make life easier. If you have a big border, you defend it. Forts help, and they give the "free shots" that you want from landmines. So, build a string of forts. It works for me.

[ShredZ]

antway no unit gets damage by the movement (as landmines certainly do)

Not entirely true, yes obviously ppl take damage from mines, but their intent is not to kill, when a mine goes off and leaves a man on the ground screaming about a missing leg, it takes 2 soldiers to pick him up and carry him to safety, thats 3 soldiers now being taken out of action, 2/3 of which are perfectly healthy. Hence, you move slower thru enemy territory, it makes perfect sence to me...