Nukes

[Ben Williams]

I don't think the importance of nuclear weapons are shown at all in civ3 (or 2 for that matter). I just won a full-scale nuclear war (on monarch) with Russia, and while I had missile defence I don't think enough damage was done. The first turn they declared war on me they attacked me with ICBM's, I got REALLY lucky and my defence intercepted all of them, about six. Well I didn't expect them to use nukes, but since they started it I nuked some of their armies and navy. The Zulu, however, had other plans. Because they liked me so much they declared war on Russia to, and they didn't restrain themselves in launching a major nuclear attack even though Russia had spent all their nukes on me. So when I came marching into the Russian cities (the Zulu never bothered to capture any of them) the place was a mess.

The point is nuclear weapons changed the face of the Earth (from the human perspective). When they are used, it's not just a matter of killed people and units plut pollution, it's a major catastrophe. The Russian should not have been so quick to use them, esspecially since I had vast missile supiriority. Only a nation with death wish would do such a thing in the real world. Nukes should have the power to wipe out entire cities, and the pollution should be radiation instead, something that would kill people for a long time after the attack and sometimes move around. The relative power should depend on tech level, the bomb dropped on Heroshima was 5 kilotons, the ones America has today are up to 80 megatons (16,000 times as powerful). I'm tired, you get the point.

[Inverse Icarus]

a nuke that wipes out a city (ala Planet Buster missles in SMAC) are far overpowered, and i'm fairly sure you'd complain if the AI actually hit you with 6 of those.

i do agree on the radiation part though. it should take longer to clean (or not be able to be cleaned at all, it would fade with time) and should damage units / lower populations of cities.

this would add another layer of strategy to the game nuking in such a way as to cover their whole continent

[Ethelred]

I'm tired, you get the point.

Try playing a bit less continuously. Take a break. The game is more fun that way. Winning when you can hardly keep your head from hitting the keys isn't very fun, its just draining.

Even for genocidal warmongering nuke happy players.

Did Russia fire the first nukes in the game? The AI rarely leads with nukes except when they are in a use it or lose it situation. First strike out of the blue seems a bit unusual.

Maybe its because I never have a nuclear defense in the game. Its always over before it becomes available, usually via a Space Race victory.

[PhoenixPhlame73]

I'm not sure what nukes do in Civ3, as they never seemed to be used on me or by me, but I would say that they should lower the population of a city, maybe enough that about three would totally destroy a city. I support them being able to destroy a city because all the corruption makes capturing enemy cities almost pointless and razing them hurts your reputation (though I suppose nuking does as well). When you really don't want those little cities on the other side ofthe map, it should be allowed to simply destroy them with haveing to invade.

[delsolsi]

I would be nice if there was a way to automatically counter attack with nukes of your own even if its not your turn yet, just like in real life. If we nuke someone we will be instantly nuked ourselves.

[Odd]

Oh, I had once a nuclear war (no SDI, was hit by 11 nukes and nuked 26 cities) and I can tell you it hurted a lot. Especially because it was my first large scale nuclear attack.
I was a Democracy, had to became communist otherwise not even if I put 70% on luxuries the people would calm down, all my major cities became useless for a lot of turns, never recovering from what they were because of all the desert around. The other cities had to start pumping out workers. To clean the mess and the 3 global warming tiles/turn. Just on my civ.
Meanwhile the army built in the peacetime keep fighting, when I reached 70 workers the situations was beggining to improve for me. The computer, who was very strong (270 mechs) could never recover, stopped all the unit production for a lot of time and was literally sent back to the middle ages.

[PhoenixPhlame73]

Yeah, that would be cool, maybe a setting that would put your nukes on "standby" and should an enemy nuke hit any of your cities, that nuke will automatically head for the nearest city/unit (user's choice?) of the opposing civ.....

Of course, if this were allowed it would open up all kinds of cool new things, like accidentally retalliating upon the wrong country and starting a world war and stuff like that....

This might even be a useful setting for conventional forces, though the reason it might be implemented there is blurry, nukes take very little time to get to their destination, but it would be far less realistic if this were done with conventional forces because that would be basically giving a player a free turn, which could really make or break a game in a big war....

[Panag]

Re: Nukes

Originally posted by Ben Williams
I don't think the importance of nuclear weapons are shown at all in civ3 (or 2 for that matter). I just won a full-scale nuclear war (on monarch) with Russia, and while I had missile defence I don't think enough damage was done. The first turn they declared war on me they attacked me with ICBM's, I got REALLY lucky and my defence intercepted all of them, about six. Well I didn't expect them to use nukes, but since they started it I nuked some of their armies and navy. The Zulu, however, had other plans. Because they liked me so much they declared war on Russia to, and they didn't restrain themselves in launching a major nuclear attack even though Russia had spent all their nukes on me. So when I came marching into the Russian cities (the Zulu never bothered to capture any of them) the place was a mess.

The point is nuclear weapons changed the face of the Earth (from the human perspective). When they are used, it's not just a matter of killed people and units plut pollution, it's a major catastrophe. The Russian should not have been so quick to use them, esspecially since I had vast missile supiriority. Only a nation with death wish would do such a thing in the real world. Nukes should have the power to wipe out entire cities, and the pollution should be radiation instead, something that would kill people for a long time after the attack and sometimes move around. The relative power should depend on tech level, the bomb dropped on Heroshima was 5 kilotons, the ones America has today are up to 80 megatons (16,000 times as powerful). I'm tired, you get the point.

hi ,

try to put the AI level in the editor to deity , it shall change a whole lot , including the use of nuke's , ....

btw , why open a new thread when there is allready a thread on nuke's , .........

have a nice day

[Carver]

Originally posted by delsolsi
I would be nice if there was a way to automatically counter attack with nukes of your own even if its not your turn yet, just like in real life. If we nuke someone we will be instantly nuked ourselves.

Someone suggested something like this in another thread. A two-turn nuke launch, giving the second civ time to let his birds fly. I don't know what happens to dormant ICBMs if the city they're in gets hit. Can they be destroyed? I think the simplest thing would be to keeps ICBMs safe in their underground silos during all nuke attacks.

[TheEvilCheater]

nukes dont get destroyed i learned that the hard way i nuked every last russia city twice and they still nuked me on the nxt turn

[Panag]

Originally posted by TheEvilCheater
nukes dont get destroyed i learned that the hard way i nuked every last russia city twice and they still nuked me on the nxt turn

hi ,

---"tacical"--- , aboard a sub , .......
and if you raelly want them , take their city's with paratroopers , after you nuked them twice , .......

have a nice day / night

[Solver]

We have a few nice threads discussing this now, and nice to see people are actually starting to agree.... I think a small city should be wiped out, but not the bigger ones.

[Panag]

Originally posted by Solver
We have a few nice threads discussing this now, and nice to see people are actually starting to agree.... I think a small city should be wiped out, but not the bigger ones.

hi ,

its not unlikely to see a size 20 city reduced to a size 1 or 2 after a ICBM makes his home of that city , ........like in real live , ....

have a nice day

[Solver]

Yes, but not destroyed immediately. A size 6 puke should be destroyed, though, with a high chance.

[Panag]

Originally posted by Solver
Yes, but not destroyed immediately. A size 6 puke should be destroyed, though, with a high chance.

hi ,

there should always be a size one at least , to symbolize the survivors , .............

have nice day