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**Sean** · May 21, 2002, 17:00

We all know the AI cheats. But not in the way you mention...that is just random chance. Though I agree the odds should be twicked.

**Catt** · May 21, 2002, 17:32

Re: Ai Cheats !

Originally posted by chrisgilbert
The AI is the biggest damn cheat i've ever seen.

Not one of your points explains how the AI cheats.

**Panag** · May 21, 2002, 17:53

Re: Ai Cheats !

Originally posted by chrisgilbert
This is a great game except

The AI is the biggest damn cheat i've ever seen.

PROBLEMS I have :

Nuclear subs can not EVER EVER EVER be sunken by a troop transport ship with a machine gun.
(this happened to me last night right before i uninstalled the game and about threw away the CD)

Nuclear missiles can't destroy cities ?

I don't know if they developers felt this was just to powerful a weapon and thought it would be neater to just make it reduce the city by 1/2 but I nuked a city 6 times and it was a nice little lvl 1 city forevor.

A guy with a gun can't hurt a tank. A tank is made of thick steel, and a guy with a gun (Rifleman at that) can NOT hurt a tank.

anyway this game is now on my craplist.

If anyone has any suggestions to how a Nuclear sub can be sunk by a troop transport, feel free to reply.

Otherwise I'm probably not going to ever play this game again.
Alpha Centauri is a much better game, as is CTP I.

later
Chris

hi ,

would you care to post a SAV(e) , ........

what version do you have , OS ,.....?

its possible , an elite transport can , if the sub's is a bit damaged , ....

have a nice day

**Jaybe** · May 21, 2002, 18:13

Re: Ai Cheats !

Originally posted by chrisgilbert
A guy with a gun can't hurt a tank. A tank is made of thick steel, and a guy with a gun (Rifleman at that) can NOT hurt a tank.
...
If anyone has any suggestions to how a Nuclear sub can be sunk by a troop transport, feel free to reply. ...

Chris, you obviously just got this game and you have not perused much of the Civ3 forums before. Your ignorance is thereby excused.

Unit graphics are just graphics. A transport unit is not necessarily just a bunch of transports (those 'landing craft' of the graphic would weather a storm no easier than a Tireme!). Consider that they get a few escorts to boot.

After a Rifleman with a smoothbore musket comes tanks, and the Rifleman gets a few anti-tank weapons, crude ones at least. So do the Infantry, and even Pikemen and Spearmen!!

Think of it as attack and defense strengths. You won't get so upset that way. If you don't like the strengths of the units, you can go into the editor and change them. Especially a good idea if you always want the more modern unit to win -- just remember that you might not always have the more modern unit!!!

BTW, while the AI does not cheat, it DOES play by some rules different than yours to make up for it not being able to "think"! The game can be full of mystery and surprises (depending on your attitude!!).

JB

**Harovan** · May 21, 2002, 18:20

You must have been extremely unlucky in your game. I play this game half a year now, and had not even 1 anti tank spearman. Not even a pikeman. Same with subs and transports, maybe mainly because I don't build subs. I think Jaybe's explanation is very good, you are not fighting with a tank against a rifleman, but with a 16.8.2 unit against a 4.6.1 unit. The 4.6.1 unit has some odds to win, especially if the 16.8.2 unit is already damaged, but not much. By the way, there have been instructions for guerillas about fighting tanks with Molotov cocktails and such, so far about the chances for men even without guns.

**Cyclotron** · May 21, 2002, 18:30

Technology dissemenates throughout the world when it is invented. This is the reason for easier tech rates for those not ahead in the tech tree, and it is also the reson (along with the obvious game balancing) that riflemen can defeat tanks.

A rifleman is not firing at the tank. If he has any brains at all, he is using the anti-tank weapons he probably is equipped with aside from his rifle. Even a unit like a musketman or spearman has sufficient mental power to pick up a gun or grenade from enemy dead... you can't control the location of every gun your Civ has ever made. Granded, changing unit graphics might be a better way to ensure verisimilitude, but this seems to be a problem only who take the game to literally: A rifleman is a guy with only a rifle who is physically incapable of using anything but a rifle. Huh?

**Theseus** · May 21, 2002, 18:48

Nuclear sub: 8a-4d
Transport: 1a-4d

Formula for success of attack: a/(a+d)

Thus, if the sub is attacking: 66% chance of winning each hp.

If the transport is attacking (!): 11% chance of winning each hp.
(BTW, I used to do this all the time in Civ2 when I had like 30 extra transports).

Explain it however you want, whether with rationalization or whatever, but them's the facts, ma'am.

Even Coracle gets this.

**Spiffor** · May 21, 2002, 18:49

Double post

**Spiffor** · May 21, 2002, 18:50

My friend in the military explained me it was pretty possible to destroy a tank for a foot soldier, as the FA-MAS (standard French assault rifle, equipping the French military since the 70's) is equipped with a grenade launcher, which is adapted to anti tank grenades. That's not surprising if Tanks don't come out that often in modern warfare, just like the battleship.

I'm sure most militaries in the rich countries also give a serious anti-tank weaponry to their foot soldiers.

**Theseus** · May 21, 2002, 18:50

Oh noooo - here comes Theseus' fleet of Attack Transports!

**Cyclotron** · May 21, 2002, 19:33

I think most of us agree that subs are underpowered. That doesn't invalidate the combat system as a whole.

**Coracle** · May 21, 2002, 19:54

My least favorite AI cheats (there are many) are two:

1. Ocean-going galleys that get teleported around the world.

2. Freebie settlers that are given to enemy military units near a just razed city.

AI cheating greatly detracts from the game.

**Cyclotron** · May 21, 2002, 20:00

Originally posted by Coracle
My least favorite AI cheats (there are many) are two:

1. Ocean-going galleys that get teleported around the world.

That's not a cheat, it's a bug. Unless you are talking about a different teleportation bug... it's a result of diplomatic expulsion, right?

2. Freebie settlers that are given to enemy military units near a just razed city.

A save? I haven't seen that one yet.

AI cheating greatly detracts from the game.

AI cheating is also the only way to make the AI competitive. Until we perfect artificial intelligence, AI cheating is the only way to make a game's SP an actual challenge. That's reality.

**Harovan** · May 21, 2002, 20:01

There we go again. Ocean going galleys. Freebie settlers. Unfortunately, nobody but Coracle has seen them yet. What about a prove far from mere statements? None so far.

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