How strong should your Navy be?

[notyoueither]

As many Battleships as it takes to rule the waves. As many Carriers as are needed to support the Battleships and a large invasion. As many Destroyers as are needed to provide escorts for the Carriers and the Transports. A few subs and nuc subs cause they're cool (and GP will beat me up if I don't).

[notyoueither]

BTW. Marines rock. They are related to Navy, right?

Latest invasion. 5 BBs bombarded. 2 Carriers worth of air bombed. 3 enemy Infantry defending size 8 city in hills. 6 of 16 Marines engaged. 3 dead Marines. 3 dead Infantry. AI city adjacent to only AI Uranium is mine. Ha ha ha. Take that Abe!

But, seriously. That's 2 to 1 odds took the city. Against Infantry fortified in size 7 city (after bombardment) on hills. The jar heads rock!

[Coracle]

Originally posted by Trip
Again, the simplicity of Civ III strikes again. Warfare of all types is incredibly ... not complex. I could go on for ages about how they could/should change things to make it more realistic, but I won't bore you all.

Face it. Firaxis' masters, Infogrames, had them DUMB DOWN the game to the level of a sixth grader. Everything related to warfare, especially naval warfare, is highly simplistic - and simpleminded.

It means NOTHING to me what kind of crappy new cutesy UU's they think of for an XP if they don't improve the system.

[Jethro83]

Originally posted by Coracle


Face it. Firaxis' masters, Infogrames, had them DUMB DOWN the game to the level of a sixth grader. Everything related to warfare, especially naval warfare, is highly simplistic - and simpleminded.

Sadly, yes. It was them trying to appeal to a wider audience than just the diehards. Its dumbfounding how combat is when you've got spearmen running around beating tanks, and frigates beating ironclads. Not only did they make it too simplistic, but they made it unrealistic as well. But that is for another discussion.

It means NOTHING to me what kind of crappy new cutesy UU's they think of for an XP if they don't improve the system.

Then don't buy the XP and stop whining. Its that simple.

[Bella Hella]

i mainly only need a navy for defensive purposes. the friggin' AI bombing your improvements from the sea is not cool. nothing a few battleships can't fix, though. i try to have battleships stationed around the perimeter of my continent (although subs would be better). the bastards have snuck up on me too many times.

also, it is really, really satisfying to destroy an AI transport containing 8 modern armor units.

[Jawa Jocky]

a lot of people build ships when they are getting bombarded from the sea. This would be a good reason to build ships IMO, except that I have so many idol workers by the time I'm getting bombarded I don't need to worry. My slaves repair the coastal land as fast as the AI bombs it. Sure I may lose some food or a mine for a turn or two, but plant units on your resources and they take the pounding and never die from the bombardment.

[campmajor!]

Hm, I just don't like the psychological effects of the AI bombing MY terrain. So it is worth the effort to first use artillery and bombers to soften their BB's up and then finish them with a few BB's yourself!

Also, I usually play on continents and a huge map, so if I want to harm the other civs on that far away continent I need a large navy! By the way I noticed that in civ3 when the map generator makes a continent world there are NO small islands at all! I liked to occupy small islands in civ2 to make a strategic base. From that city/island I began an invasion. After using an Airport to stack a lot of units in it. But that has changed....

[Stuie]

I've modded all my naval units to try to make them more useful/enjoyable. What I did was:

1. Change movement costs as follows: Coast - 1, Sea - 2, Ocean - 3.
2. Doubled movement for all ancient and middle era naval units.
3. Changed industrial/modern era naval units (except the iron clad - I just doubled the movement on those) to treat all terrain as roads.
4. Changed the nuke sub to carry four tactical missiles, and drastically increased the lethality (lethal vs. land & sea) and range of the cruise missile.
5. Increased carrier transport capacity to six planes.

Oh, and I gave all air power lethal bombardment vs. sea units.

Unfortunately, the first game I've played with all the changes in place I'm way ahead in techs, so I haven't gotten to see if the AI can handle the changes with any intelligence.

[Pythagoras]

Navies are useful, depending on the map. (Who would build a navy on a pangea map?) I think Navys should have something to at least sort of keep up with the railroad advancements on land. (Although giving a unit too much movement will make combat very avoidable).


Here's another question-

Has anyone used navies to succesfully blockade and weaken opponents?

[dunk]

Obviously, it all depends on your map. On an island map, you need boats. On a pangea map, you don't need boats at all.

I like to use modern navies for bombardment. Especially if I'm ahead of the AI in tech. In the water, they are safer than land artillery, granted at a higher shield cost.

[planetfall]

Originally posted by campmajor!
By the way I noticed that in civ3 when the map generator makes a continent world there are NO small islands at all!

I always play middle continent world. I notice only 1-2 islands. I would like continents plus 5-10 islands. I don't know if this is an option at the beginning world mass choices. Every time I think I have discovered an island, it is always totally submerged.

Current game, there is only 1 island and 3 continents. A few more islands would definitely keep the game more interesting and challenging.

[BillChin]

Originally posted by Andrew Cory
First, durring trade negotiations, make the two sides assign actual trade routs: Ships leave City A and go to City B, then hit City C, where the goods are taken possetion of. Make this Trade rout visible to both trade partners, as well as somthing learnable with spies/diplomats. Any time a designated pirate unit (either player or Barbarian) crosses this line, (weather they know it or not), the unit can roll to see if it is successfull. Odds go up if the pirate knows that the rout is there.

Voila! Now you need a navy to protect sea commerce...

If done without making any other changes, there is little possibility that a player can protect a long sea route. What can a player do? Line up 50 combat ships along the entire length of the trade route? In your proposal all a privateer has to do is cross the line to pirate. There is virtually no defense against this and would take an extremely large navy to prevent. A player must find the privateer in a large ocean, and then chase it down and sink it. These are non-trivial tasks even if a player has a 3-to-1 naval advantage.

In contrast, by having piracy occur next to port cities, a player can counter by building coastal fortresses and have a handful of patrol ships and artillery or bombers. Locating the pirates is easy enough, and bringing ships to bear is also straightforward. With supporting air or artillery, a modest navy can do a good job. Clever pirates also have a good chance by massing and using hit-and-run tactics (what pirates are known for).

The existing rules only allow navies to destroy roads or try to bombard cities. These are annoying, but of no benefit to the attacking player unless they land troops. Pirating gold can fuel the war economy to buy more units. Now that is something useful and would prompt me to build more naval units. My piracy suggestion also opens up the possibility of a large fleet of pirate ships profiting while other civs are at war with each other. Now that would be fun (though not for the other civs).

As it is now, navies are mainly for show and for ego. A good player can complete games with any type of victory on any map with only a handful of combat ships. Tranports are another story.

[planetfall]

How about a new special unit "Pirate" who can only cross seas in pirate vessels. One of actions of pirate would be to "steal resource". Should be able to steal gold or any luxury resource. Just as it takes X turns to mine resource, it should take X turns to steal resource. Then if resource is successfully stolen, pirate could carry stolen resource to new tile and complete action event "plant resource".

With this valuable game addition, players might actually need a navy rather than just having a few ships to move around.

[MosesPresley]

duplicate post

[MosesPresley]

Originally posted by Pythagoras

Has anyone used navies to succesfully blockade and weaken opponents?

I always have a strong navy on continent maps. I use them to defend against enemy raiders that harass my shore developments. I find that very annoying. I also use them to blockade smaller opponents or individual cities that are under siege. In that respect they supplement any trade embargoes. They are also an extremely important part of any amphibious invasion plan. If I control the seas, my game goes easier.