Do you consider re-loading previous saves to be cheating?

[Stuie]

Originally posted by theEntity
It's cheating if you're playing as part of a competition, or if you subit your score to a HOF (or brag about the score).

Otherwise, it's just playing a more laid-back and forgiving game than you otherwise would. If you feel more comfortable with such a game than the more intense game you'll have where each mistake counts, then do it. It doesn't hurt anyone.

I agree completely with this sentiment. The only person you're "cheating" in a single player game is yourself, and if you feel no qualms about it, go ahead.

Having said that, there are in fact times when I feel no qualms about returning to a previous save. I'll also save and try something crazy just to see if it works - more like experimentation than actual strategic decision making. I have turned the auto-save off to speed up the game, so if something bad happens and I haven't saved in awhile, I just deal with it.

[Zachriel]

Reload abandoned games

Abandon the game, then reload all you want for experimental purposes. Just don't think you won.

I rarely finish games, so once my goal is reached, or if I fail to reach my goal, I declare an end to the game. At that point, I may reload to find out what might have happened if I had played a different strategy. However, if my goal was to complete Sistine Chapel, and I don't, well then I lost.

[zulu9812]

Originally posted by Sir Ralph
I reload under 2 circumstances:

- when the game freezes, which happens sometimes, when I drag a unit with the mouse over the screen borders
- when I hit the wrong button, for instance I sent a unit in a direction I didn't want to and the mistake can't be corrected by the next turn or similar. This happens very seldom, and I reload only if nothing of importance happened during the wrong move, like discovering enemy units or so. This principle has cost me a lot of scouts already. Oh well, they're cheap.

Reloading coz the game crashed is fine - that can't be avoided. Reloading because of a tactical error or you hand 'slipped' on the keyboard isn't.

[MiloMilo]

Sometimes when I'm clicking around the map to look around, my computer somehow gets the idea that I'm asking the active unit to go where I just clicked. Then the unit moves towards that point (usually half a world away) automatically and as fast as it can. The worst is when I have a lot of active units and forget about that one, until I see it move automatically again. I end up with a knight twelve tiles away from where it should be, or a settler in enemy territory. That's always annoying. I don't usually reload though. On large maps it gets to be just too much to replay five turns.

[MiloMilo]

and

Ethelred: you have been right on point in every post in this thread.

Coracle, I can't decide if you should be playing Civ2 or SMAC. Probably SMAC.

(Mind you, that's not a dig. SMAC is a great game. It introduced borders and civ traits, separated workers from settlers, had an inventive and fun tech tree with great quotes from "the datalinks..." The only problem was with the colors. Oh well.)

[dojoboy]

You folks have covered this pretty well. Basically, if you're playing the game involving just you and the computer, do what fits your personality. If you're playing a tournament or GOTM, don't do it, unless the game freezes/crashes.

[Harovan]

Originally posted by zulu9812
Reloading coz the game crashed is fine - that can't be avoided. Reloading because of a tactical error or you hand 'slipped' on the keyboard isn't.

As I said, I deny reloading for tactical mistakes. But have you ever tried to (P)lant forest on your own territory, or similar? I usually don't reload in most of these situations either. Only if they happened in the beginning of the turn and nothing (especially no combat etc.) has happened yet, I consider to redo it with the autosave. This is even conform with the quite strict CFC tournament rules.

[Ming]

If you plan on playing MP in the future, you might as well learn how to play without reloading. Deal with your mistakes. Consider it a learning experience. Plus, it makes the game more interesting.

On the other hand, if you are playing for fun, do whatever you need to in order to maximize your entertainment. That is what games are all about. But, if you plan on playing a tournament game, or boasting about your success... reloading is cheating

[Bella Hella]

the only time i've reloaded is if rome calls me on the civ-o-phone and says "what a cute little civilization you have. t'would be a shame if something happens to it." and demands a tech or gold. i know that by telling him to shove it, he'll declare war. i always tell him to shove it anyway, and then reload. i can't resist trying to call their bluffs every time, even though it always fails.

if i just get a game and am still a beginner, i'll reload for experimental purposes.

[Jawa Jocky]

Its cheating, but its a good way to learn from mistakes too. I did it once because the default for holding UN elections is YES and I wasn't paying attention and voted when I didn't want to. Its like golf really. If your only hurting yourself it doesn't matter, however if your playing for competition your hurting others and it does matter.

[Stuie]

Originally posted by Coracle
BTW, there is nothing I can do to stop a city flipping to me by reloading. I have asked many times to be able to totally toggle off that Culture Flipping crap, be it regarding cities or borders.

If you don't want the city - just say no. You don't have to take the foreign city that wants to flip.

[zulu9812]

If you want to learn from your mistakes, reload saves AFTER the game is over. Whether it'j just you vs computer, tournament, or whatever, the only reason to reload is because of a crash or freeze, You're just cheating yourself otherwise. Ming has a point - it's good practice for multi-player.

Reload & learn after the game is over.

[Harovan]

Originally posted by Ming
But, if you plan on playing a tournament game, or boasting about your success... reloading is cheating

On tournaments, you have to observe the tournament rules. And in the CFC tournaments for instance, they say:

Most importantly, it is not allowed to reload. Only when the game crashes or you accidentally press the wrong button you may continue from an autosave, but otherwise never.

I also played my tournament games without reloading (far from once in the GOTM6, when my game froze on a mouse drag as described above), but if anyone said even officially, that he reloaded, because he pressed the wrong button, you hardly can call him a cheater. I find this rule also not very good for a tournament, but as far as it stands, reloading on wrong button is allowed. May be, this is about to change, who knows.

[Xarathas]

When I first started playing Civ (civ, civ2, civ3), I reloaded quite a bit. It was an efficient way to learn from my mistakes, seeing how results differed from the paths I chose. As I learn more about the game, the less I have to reload, and eventually it gets to a point where I never reload unless it's because I saved to quit.

I don't think it's more of a "it's cheating" problem, it's just that it makes it more challenging not correcting the mistakes you make. Besides, sometimes the turns take so long, it would be absolutely heinous to replay from a few turns back.

[nato]

I definitely feel the game is "tainted" if I save and reload. I feel much prouder of games that were "clean", as in no reloading.

Not saving makes it feel so much more real and exciting! Also it gives the possiblity of having actual serious defeats, which actually are memorable and make the game more interesting.

My first game, I lost my cool elite Musketeer army, which I was very excited to have. I pushed them too far forward, and they died on a hill adjacent to an enemy city. The whole thing broke my forces, and I had to make peace. The whole game all I could think about was the lost army, on that darn hill ... it was like a Stalingrad kind of. (Of course I made up for it, centuries later ... renamed the city Fallen Army or something.)

With saving, no cool, memorable defeat stories to come back from ... only guaranteed victories.