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My beef with CivIII

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  • My beef with CivIII

    What really annoys me the most about CivIII is how static the Civilisations are. Everyone starts off at 4000BC and basically its a matter of killing off who you see until the end.

    In CivI (I never really played CivII much) new opponents would pop up throughout the game, especially after you have killed off someone else. I thought this was a fundamental feature in keeping the game somewhat realistic if not more interesting (not that it ever was overly realistic). Also, from time to time, one nation would split into two... perhaps as a result of the capital being destroyed, or even if approval was just down.

    Who cares if the new opponent is weak, it just gives the militant gamer some new territory to annex.

    I've been playing CivIII for a few weeks now and I've never seen any of these things happen

    Barbarians arn't nearly potent enough. In the real world "barbarians" managed to destroy most ancient and classical societies (Babylon, Rome, China, Aztecs to name a few). In this game I manage to defend a city from a barbarian onslaught of 20 horsemen or so with three or four Pikemen. I think they can do a bit better than flint axe warriors and horsemen too. It's a bit of a joke when a barbarian with an axe attacks a town garrisoned with riflemen.

    Also I think it would be a good feature to have barbarian encampments turn into new civilisations if not destroyed in 10 turns. Tell me that a camp of barbarians sitting around for 50 years isnt going to eventually settle down and start farming/building. And I liked it when barbarians would take control of your city if you left it undefended. Just wandering in and taking a few bob from the town treasury doesnt really bake the cake in my mind.

    I have many more issues with this game, but they have already been bought up in this forum. Maybe these issues have been bought up too, I havnt seen them.

  • #2
    Hi AH.

    Edit: Apologies to the innocent, if there are any.
    Last edited by notyoueither; May 14, 2002, 04:00.
    (\__/)
    (='.'=)
    (")_(") This is Bunny. Copy and paste bunny into your signature to help him gain world domination.

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    • #3
      What I hate is the way barbs never develop. Geez, they got that right in civ freakin II
      Any views I may express here are personal and certainly do not in any way reflect the views of my employer. Tis the rising of the moon..

      Look, I just don't anymore, okay?

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Alexander's Horse
        What I hate is the way barbs never develop. Geez, they got that right in civ freakin II
        I know man, they had it even in Civ I... and that was ten years ago.

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        • #5
          It kind of insults your intelligence - like the latest Star Wars movies.
          Any views I may express here are personal and certainly do not in any way reflect the views of my employer. Tis the rising of the moon..

          Look, I just don't anymore, okay?

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          • #6
            Originally posted by notyoueither
            Hi AH.

            Edit: Apologies to the innocent, if there are any.
            Is Alexander's Horse that fond of talking to himself or is he just a traditional target for such accusations?

            I personally would like the splitting that occured in Civ II. I don't thinks its viable in Civ III however. It wasn't good for the civ in Civ II either but it did make the game a bit more variable.

            If barbarians could become full fledged civs people would probably start screaming about them taking over all the open space.

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            • #7
              I could have sworn that powerpleb was him. Maybe it's just a cultural thing. One talks to oneself a great deal in the out back I would imagine.
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              (")_(") This is Bunny. Copy and paste bunny into your signature to help him gain world domination.

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              • #8
                um, the new patch allows "restart elinminated players". mmmhhhkay?
                "I've lived too long with pain. I won't know who I am without it. We have to leave this place, I am almost happy here."
                - Ender, from Ender's Game by Orson Scott Card

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                • #9
                  That was allready in the game. Now you can turn it off. Prior to 1.21f it wasn't an option.

                  In Civ II if a civ was eliminated a DIFFERENT civ tooks it place. In Civ III the same civ respawns. This irked some players enormously so its now an option. If you turn it off there is no respawn and no replacement.

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                  • #10
                    I agree with the sentiment about barbarians. They should develop, like they did in Civ II.

                    But the new civs popping up... I don't really like that concept. Once the player of that colour is gone... I want them to be dead AND buried. Even if the Egyptians were to mutate into the Zulu (since both use yellow), it still doesn't appeal to my style of play.

                    If there was to be that kind of option, like in Civ II, I'd definitely leave it turned off. Just like I already have "restart elinminated players" from the 1.21 patch permanently off.
                    "Corporation, n, An ingenious device for obtaining individual profit without individual responsibility." -- Ambrose Bierce
                    "Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both." -- Benjamin Franklin
                    "Yes, we did produce a near-perfect republic. But will they keep it? Or will they, in the enjoyment of plenty, lose the memory of freedom? Material abundance without character is the path of destruction." -- Thomas Jefferson

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                    • #11
                      Never did understand why barbarians don't develop in Civ3.

                      Then again they usually don't last long enough to make it to the renaissance ages anyway.
                      signature not visible until patch comes out.

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                      • #12
                        Well that's to be expected since cultural boundaries take up all the open land. Thus leaving nothing for the barbarians to gather at.

                        Oh I remember Civ II, where many unchartered islands I went to were swarming with barbarian musketeers, cannons, riflemen, artillery, fanatics and partisans ALL SIMULTANEOUSLY!!!

                        Since the AI are more seaworthy than before (their magic galleys with the power of teleportation) even the islands don't provide enough land for the barbarians to take root.
                        "Corporation, n, An ingenious device for obtaining individual profit without individual responsibility." -- Ambrose Bierce
                        "Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both." -- Benjamin Franklin
                        "Yes, we did produce a near-perfect republic. But will they keep it? Or will they, in the enjoyment of plenty, lose the memory of freedom? Material abundance without character is the path of destruction." -- Thomas Jefferson

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by LordAzreal
                          Oh I remember Civ II, where many unchartered islands I went to were swarming with barbarian musketeers, cannons, riflemen, artillery, fanatics and partisans ALL SIMULTANEOUSLY!!!

                          Since the AI are more seaworthy than before (their magic galleys with the power of teleportation) even the islands don't provide enough land for the barbarians to take root.
                          That's a good point but consider this. Do you think that there was more usable land in civ2 than there is in civ3? I used to find that even in the 1900's there was still plenty of unsettled land in civ2. This rarely happens in civ3. Just a thought.
                          signature not visible until patch comes out.

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                          • #14
                            There was about as much usable land in Civ II as there was in Civ III. But in Civ III, expansion is much more important than it was in Civ II IMHO.
                            "Corporation, n, An ingenious device for obtaining individual profit without individual responsibility." -- Ambrose Bierce
                            "Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both." -- Benjamin Franklin
                            "Yes, we did produce a near-perfect republic. But will they keep it? Or will they, in the enjoyment of plenty, lose the memory of freedom? Material abundance without character is the path of destruction." -- Thomas Jefferson

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                            • #15
                              Re: My beef with CivIII

                              Originally posted by powerpleb
                              1) ...In CivI (I never really played CivII much) new opponents would pop up throughout the game, especially after you have killed off someone else.

                              2) ... Also, from time to time, one nation would split into two... perhaps as a result of the capital being destroyed, or even if approval was just down.

                              3)...Barbarians arn't nearly potent enough. ...It's a bit of a joke when a barbarian with an axe attacks a town garrisoned with riflemen.

                              4)...And I liked it when barbarians would take control of your city if you left it undefended. Just wandering in and taking a few bob from the town treasury doesnt really bake the cake in my mind.

                              5)...Also I think it would be a good feature to have barbarian encampments turn into new civilisations if not destroyed in 10 turns.
                              Hmmmm, lets see...

                              1 and 2 - New civs evolving...
                              3,4, and 5 - Evolving Barbarians and Barbarians contolled cities/civs...

                              Sounds like Modded CTP2 to me!!
                              Yes, let's be optimistic until we have reason to be otherwise...No, let's be pessimistic until we are forced to do otherwise...Maybe, let's be balanced until we are convinced to do otherwise. -- DrSpike, Skanky Burns, Shogun Gunner
                              ...aisdhieort...dticcok...

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