What do you think about carriers?

[campmajor!]

Personally I think that carriers are not so powerful anymore, which I regret. It used to be so much fun sending out carriers with a lot of bombers, fighters and some helicopters.

First of all bombers and fighters can no longer destroy other units, so it is much more difficult to conquer.

Secondly a carrier can only hold 4 "flying artillery". So to have some impact you need more carriers. It makes a carrier less useful. And also a bit unrealistic. A city can hold much more planes, so why can a carrier hold only 4?

I'm wondering what your opinion is, so let me know.

[Cookie Monster]

Greetings campmajor!

I think that carriers should be allowed to carry 5 units, no more and no less. I'm glad they did away with infinite capacity on carriers but that is unrealistic. OTOH holding only 4 units is a little unrealistic too. After all modern day carriers pack a lot of aircraft and helicopters into their bellies!

[Harovan]

I'm fine with carriers as they are. It would not hurt if they could hold more bombers/fighters, but that's not necessary. Just build more carriers. Btw: one "bomber" on the map is not equivalent to one plane, and one carrier is not equivalent to one ship. Both represent larger units, like air wings or fleets, so you can't compare this like in your example.

[Cookie Monster]

Originally posted by Sir Ralph
Btw: one "bomber" on the map is not equivalent to one plane, and one carrier is not equivalent to one ship. Both represent larger units, like air wings or fleets, so you can't compare this like in your example.

Just curious, is this stated in the manual or is this the official opinion on Poly is?

I'm not trying to be offensive so please forgive me. What I mean is in games like "The Operational Art of War" I know what one unit represents in terms of actual numbers. To me this is vague in the civ series. I guess I take things at face value, but unconsciously try to imagine bigger numbers.

[Harovan]

Haupt. Dietrich:

I'm not sure if it's in the manual or not (who reads manuals? ), but it's common knowledge. It's logical. Look at the map. If we set it equal the earth's surface, a tile on Marla's map is approximately 100x100 miles. Nobody would suppose, that a single infantryman there is the only defender of that big area. It surely is a division or (considering the area) even rather an army corps. Just like one pop point represents not one person

What concerns TOAW, well, it plays on realistic map and has a historical background. It's easier to form true regiments and divisions if you have the appropriate historical information. Btw: I dropped TOAW in disgust. It's a great game, but these morons never localized their patches and the new scenarios were incompatible to the unpatched version. I'm boycotting Talonsoft now.

[Jon Shafer]

Being that Civ loves to be vague in such realistic areas... nothing is ever said. However, I usually consider each "unit" to be a division of around 3,000 men, which seems realistic. I'm not sure about how many planes each unit should represent, but it's always a possibility that each ship... is actually one ship. After all, most countries didn't have more than 12 battleships usually, and you can easily build that number and more in this game.

[Harovan]

Trip: With ships, you are probably right indeed. But with planes it must be different. I have, in average, about 20 bombers in a game, while an average real country may have hundreds or even thousands of them (sorry, have actually no access to links or true numbers).

[campmajor!]

I realize that one unit represents a lot of units, but one bomber-unit in civ inflicts a certain amount of damage. If you look at it that way, I think there should be more bombers/fighters on a carrier. Especially if you consider that one turn is at least one year....

[Jon Shafer]

Bah, I ignore the whole turn system... like it takes a bunch of warriors 50 years to get from one tile to the next? My point exactly...

I would say that each bomber unit represents perhaps 20 or 25 actual aircraft... that allows each Aircraft Carrier 80 to 100 planes, which is about accurate.

With the 25 figure, 20 Bombers is about 500 planes... which was about the average air force as well, if not a little larger. Superpowers like Germany during WWII had 2000 planes, but, I'm sure you can see, that's quite an exception. Warmongers could probably get at least 40 Bombers out when they're really going at it. Besides, that's not even accounting for Fighters yet... 40 fighters and 40 bombers, you have a massive air power like Germany.

[Akka]

4 units by carrier is small, but I just avoided the problem by creating the Supercarrier (with Nuclear Power) that can bring 6 units. It's that easy

[HazieDaVampire]

its pritty simple, 1 'unit' counts as one group, wether its squad, platoon, squadron, regiment.

[Panag]

hi ,

a good tip ; carriers should hold 10-12 units , they should cost more , there defense should be higher and that vulcan gun should be used as airdefense aswell , ......

and of course carriers should hold some helicopters , .....
there should be more types of helicopters , .....to spot subs or so , ....

have a nice day

[HazieDaVampire]

i do think they should cost more, major civs should have maby 5 carriers, and a meduim should have about two.

[Jaybe]

Yes, Carriers should also be able to spot subs.
If you want more aircraft capacity in your carrier force either:
1) Editor, or
2) Build more carriers (my preference)

More carriers means less disaster if one gets sunk, even though you 'get' to move more units. OTH, who has ever had a carrier sunk?

JB

[Panag]

Originally posted by Jaybe
Yes, Carriers should also be able to spot subs.
If you want more aircraft capacity in your carrier force either:
1) Editor, or
2) Build more carriers (my preference)

More carriers means less disaster if one gets sunk, even though you 'get' to move more units. OTH, who has ever had a carrier sunk?

JB

hi ,

carriers can not see subs , there for they should have some escort units , ...
the AI can sometimes nuke carriers or use's cruise missille's , .....

have a nice day