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Naval Blockades and the AI

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  • #16
    Probably the only place where blockading is feasable is when the AI capital is on the coast. Then, when you send in hordes of mobiles to raze the roads, you can complete the capital cutoff (destroying their internal trade network) by blockading the capital.

    Ironically, it's harder to use the "cut off the capital" strategy when the city is NOT on the coast, since your units will have to travel farther to do the job.
    To those who understand,
    I extend my hand.
    To the doubtful I demand,
    Take me as I am.

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    • #17
      Well, that's what a blockade is - completely obstructing access to something, in this case water access to a city. Remember the scale here. The little squares are an abstraction meant to represent thousands of square miles.
      Well actually I disagree. A blockade is not completely obstructing access. It is posting ships outside major ports. On maps, when they show the line of ships to represent a blockade, that line is not actually there, it is just a representation. There are not enough ships in the world to literally ring a coast.

      Smugglers get through all the holes, but easy access to major ports is stopped. You have a point about scale, but really I think one or two ships should be enough.

      As for your other ideas, the defending civ already loses use of the resources (food/trade/shields/fish/whales) in the square(s) you occupy. Additional penalties would just unneccessarily complicate the game.

      I think it's fine as implemented.
      Fair enough, though I didn't think my idea was at all complicated. I would prefer my method because:
      1. it would make blockades not an all-or-nothing thing
      2. it would make submarines more unique and valuable
      3. it would actually be possible to do

      I find the way it is currently implemented basically impossible to ever happen, so it may as well not even be there.

      How many times do you ever make it happen?
      Good = Love, Love = Good
      Evil = Hate, Hate = Evil

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      • #18
        The Germans almost won two World Wars by having their subs attack MERCHANT SHIPPING on trade routes.

        The Americans in the Am. Revolution in large part beat the British because so many American privateers on British trade routes were sinking his merchant ships causing not only the losses but insurance rates to skyrocket.

        Neither of those can we do in Civ 3 as Firaxis has no idea what naval units really are for.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by nato
          I find the way it is currently implemented basically impossible to ever happen, so it may as well not even be there.

          How many times do you ever make it happen?
          Ha! You have a point. I think I've bothered with a blockade in exactly one game thus far. The Greeks had four or five cities on an island, their capital was on a continent. I managed to destroy the harbors in all but one city, and then blockaded that city while trying to destroy the harbor (my barrages proved to be ineffective as it was the largest city on the island).

          As for Coracles "comment", some level of abstraction is necessary in any computer game. But obviously your invectives against anything and everything in this game show that you derive more enjoyment from derision than you do from constructive comment or (gasp) actually playing computer games. If it were otherwise, you would have moved along by now.
          "Stuie has the right idea" - Japher
          "I trust Stuie and all involved." - SlowwHand
          "Stuie is right...." - Guynemer

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          • #20
            I disagree. I believe Coracle is on point. What is the point? After Brian left, Sid ensured that Civ3 would be the kind of game that would leave that hollow feeling in the stomachs of gamers. So that we will be ready to buy the next game. Sid intentionally tanked it by putting B class designers on the project.

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            • #21
              lol, i hope he has A class designers on the XP, evn better A class designers on the patches!
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              • #22
                Originally posted by jimmytrick
                I disagree. I believe Coracle is on point. What is the point? After Brian left, Sid ensured that Civ3 would be the kind of game that would leave that hollow feeling in the stomachs of gamers. So that we will be ready to buy the next game. Sid intentionally tanked it by putting B class designers on the project.
                Well, thanks for that baseless, conspiracy fearing insight, Nostradamus. Was sid on the grassy knoll, too? I have an idea: Talk about things you actually know something about, and get back to me when you find something worthwhile to say about them.
                Lime roots and treachery!
                "Eventually you're left with a bunch of unmemorable posters like Cyclotron, pretending that they actually know anything about who they're debating pointless crap with." - Drake Tungsten

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                • #23
                  Real Trade routes

                  The game totally abstracts trade routes to the point of not being a factor in the game. It's almost like an on or off switch.

                  Firaxis knows exactly what naval units are to be used for....carrying units, protecting the carrying units or destroying the carrying units, and exploring the map.

                  p.s. - jimmy, give it a rest. You are stating the obvious to those who already know the truth and irritating those who perceive the truth as something else. If you continue to bang your head against the brick wall, you will only get a headache.
                  "Our lives are frittered away by detail....simplify, simplify."

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                  • #24
                    Another thread changed from its original topic (naval blockades) to the same old Firaxis-is-evil junk.

                    Don't you guys get tired of that? How are posts like that making you happier? Pretty sad...

                    Anyway, trade routes are exactly like an on-off switch. That is why blockades are all-or-nothing. I don't think this could be easily changed as far as resources/luxuries are concerned.

                    However it would not be hideously complicated rules-wise to let blockades chip away at gold like I suggested. You could even let bombers inflict gold damage to represent bombing of the economy. This would let economic warfare be a choice.

                    However it might be hard programming-wise ... always the problem ... but in an expansion things are possible...
                    Good = Love, Love = Good
                    Evil = Hate, Hate = Evil

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                    • #25
                      Re: Real Trade routes

                      Originally posted by Deornwulf
                      The game totally abstracts trade routes to the point of not being a factor in the game. It's almost like an on or off switch.

                      Firaxis knows exactly what naval units are to be used for....carrying units, protecting the carrying units or destroying the carrying units, and exploring the map. . .
                      If that is what Firaxis knows, it knows NOTHING about the reality of what navies are for. Nothing.

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                      • #26
                        What are they for then Coracle?

                        To my limited understanding, the ocean is only useful as a means of transport. Navies are for keeping that means of transport open for yourself, and closed for your enemies.

                        Thats basically what Deornwulf said.

                        But I'm not a navy guy ... so what are they really for if not that?
                        Good = Love, Love = Good
                        Evil = Hate, Hate = Evil

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                        • #27
                          Blockades could be useful, if you have total sea supremacy. In my big game, I've destroyed the US's navy and I could blockade their small island which has all their rubber. I like to capture harbors so i'd rather blockade than destroy them with bombarrdment(another good tactic).
                          I'm not completely sure the game sticks to the rules properly.. one time the AI had a resource which it shouldn't havebeen able to have - I'd split their civ into 2 and no harbours or airports could join it - I may have been wrong but this shouldn't be allowable.

                          I don't think anyones really used blockades enough to know of their strategy value.. maybe multiplayer will show more uses.

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                          • #28
                            Sounds like this game need 2 new ships

                            1. Mine Layers

                            2. Mine Sweepers

                            Then you could Mine their Harbors.

                            EDIT: Typo
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                            Then he lets the wind his days arrange and he calls the tide his master.

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Admiral PJ
                              I'm not completely sure the game sticks to the rules properly.. one time the AI had a resource which it shouldn't havebeen able to have - I'd split their civ into 2 and no harbours or airports could join it - I may have been wrong but this shouldn't be allowable.
                              They only need a road connection to a non-enemy harbor. It doesn't have to be their own harbor. Although I have seen cases where I had to look a lot before I could figure out how they were making contact.

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                              • #30
                                And once two civ's have airports, then real problems come about trying to find trade routes.
                                Grrr | Pieter Lootsma | Hamilton, NZ | grrr@orcon.net.nz
                                Waikato University, Hamilton.

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