City tile production with 1.21f patch

[Nero Would]

The rules that determine the production from the city centre tile have changed with the 1.21f patch. After checking various cities in a few different games, I came up with the following rules that seem to work. Please let me know if you find any cities that do not follow these rules.

• Start with the production of the tile on which the city is built (including resources and bonuses).
• In the case of Forest, use the production of the underlying terrain (Grassland, Plains or Tundra).
• Change Food production to 2 (Food production is always 2 for city centre tiles).
• Add 1 gold (city centre tile contains a Road).
• Add 1 Shield and 1 Gold for pop 7+ City.
• Add another 1 Shield and 1 Gold for pop 13+ Metropolis.
• For pop 13+ Metropolis add another Shield if Industrious and another Gold if Commercial.
• If the resulting Shields are less than 1, increase to 1.
• If the resulting Gold is less than 4, increase to 4.
• Add 1 Gold if under Republic or Democracy.
• Add 1 Gold if Colossus is in the city.
• If under Despotism or Anarchy, the 3rd Food/Shield/Gold from each tile is lost.

For example a city on Plains with Cattle next to a River. Normal production (Food/Shields/Gold) from this tile is 1/1/0 for Plains plus 2/1/0 for Cattle plus 0/0/1 for River making 3/2/1. Changing Food to 2 and adding 1 Gold for the Road gives us 2/2/2. As Gold is less than 4, we change it to 4 making a basic production rate of 2/2/4 for a city built on this tile. Under Despotism, production would be reduced to 2/2/3, under Republic or Democracy, it would be increased to 2/2/5.

Now let's take the city in the above example and grow it under Monarchy. As a Town of pop 1-6, we had 2/2/2 which became 2/2/4 when we increased Gold to the minimum of 4. When it becomes a City at pop 7, we have 2/3/3 which becomes 2/3/4 when we increase Gold to the minimum of 4. When it becomes a Metropolis at pop 13, we have 2/4/4 (plus 1 Shield if Industrious and 1 Gold if Commercial), Shields and Gold are at or above the minimum, so no further adjustment is needed.

[spy14]

Its to late in the day.

[player1]

Is that "min 4 gold thing" new in 1.21f patch?
It makes commercial trait bonus useless if city is not on river.

I don't know why they removed bonuses form 7pop cities (if they were ever).

If you ask me commercial trait should have bonus from start (1+ pop), since that trait is considerably weaker then industrial trait (no early befenfits at all).

[Nero Would]

Originally posted by player1
Is that "min 4 gold thing" new in 1.21f patch?
It makes commercial trait bonus useless if city is not on river.

I don't know why they removed bonuses form 7pop cities (if they were ever).

If you ask me commercial trait should have bonus from start (1+ pop), since that trait is considerably weaker then industrial trait (no early befenfits at all).

Yes, the minimum of 4 gold is new in 1.21f, and I agree that it makes the Commercial civs' city tile production bonus almost useless. I think it would be better if the Commercial and Industrial bonuses were applied after production has been increased to the minimum, and should either apply to all pop 1+ cities or at least to all pop 7+ cities.

[player1]

Although getting free shield for Industrail civ, at 1+ pop is too powerfull.

I vote for 7+ pop for Industrial shields, and 1+ pop for Commercial gold.

[Grrr]

Interesting to know. All my new cities are going to be founded on deserts now.

[Dienstag]

I vote for 7+ pop for Industrial shields, and 1+ pop for Commercial gold.

I second that. Sounds reasonable...at least worth a playtest. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think the civ trait bonuses are editable (currently) unless you want to redefine city and metropolis sizes.

[aside]
anyone know what happens if you define maximum city size to be less than maximum town size?
[/aside]

One more point: Nero Would's city resources model is much better than anything I've bothered to come up with, but there may be a small flaw. I think, when building a city on grassland, that the city always starts at one shield from the city square, regardless of whether or not it was one of the special shielded-grasslands. I've made it a tactic to avoid whenever possible building on a shielded-grassland. Am I missing something?

[Nero Would]

Originally posted by Dienstag
One more point: Nero Would's city resources model is much better than anything I've bothered to come up with, but there may be a small flaw. I think, when building a city on grassland, that the city always starts at one shield from the city square, regardless of whether or not it was one of the special shielded-grasslands. I've made it a tactic to avoid whenever possible building on a shielded-grassland. Am I missing something?

Yes the city always starts with at least 1 Shield (one of my rules was if shields are less than one, increase to 1). So building a town on bonus grassland will waste the bonus. You will get the bonus back when the town evolves to a pop 7+ City.

[ALPHA WOLF 64]

I'm playing 1.21 and try to start all my starting cities on rivers. My capitol is usually 2/1/3, and my other cities are 2/1/2 unless I start them on iron or gold, at which point i get a shield or gold bonus.