Is the air mission system good?

[Miznia]

Is it just implemented because of the new bombardment system?

I'm not sure whether I like it or not. Anyway it doesn't seem quite balanced, as I tend to find it to be better value to build ships (for bombardment) than to build bombers+carriers and go up against fighters.

I was playing Civ1 recently, with a big, modern world war (w/o any alliances of course), and it was a lot of fun to move bombers and fighters just like other units.

And is it just me, or was the Civ1 AI really vicious in (esp. overseas) wars?

Miznia

[benjdm]

I like the general idea of the air missions but there needs to be some way to engage in offensive air superiority. I can imagine doing this in two ways:

1. Have a 'fighter sweep' mission that you select a target for and the fighters engage enemy fighters on air superiority missions

2. When you try a bombard with a fighter, jet fighter, or F-15 and an enemy fighter is on air superiority the bombard is abandoned and the aircraft fight each other.

Personally, I like 2. better. It was basically implemented succesfully in an old DOS RTS game CommandHQ where there weren't bombers / fighters, just generic air units.

[spy14]

I tend to use battle groups... carriers with battleships and cruisers, battleships to bombard the enemy and carriers to destroy enemy bombers as they come in to respond. Once the enemy bombers are depleted fighters will attack your units, when a few of those are removed you can move your bombers in and attack in relative safety...

[Jamski]

I find that the best approach with bombers is to use them en masse as artillery, a bit like Hitler in Poland and Russia. The advantage over arty is, nat., the mobility factor and the longer range. As an old (v. old) civ1 hand, I must say I preferred the old system. A combination of battle ships, transports w/riflemen and carriers with bombers garantied (sp?) all the oppositions coastal cities without caualties. And in civ1 the AI knew how to use naval and air units (esp. the Chinese/Americans) to really hit you from their continent, without invading. but leaving all your cities undefended and then... "native unrest near X"

Missions sucks, but not big time, it's just not so good as civ1.

-Jam

[Mikhail]

I like it better, personally. Having aircraft run out of fuel so soon was way too annoying, and unrealistic. Considering that they barely had enough fuel to bomb a city and come back, while American fighters can take off from Georgia and bomb Afghanistan.

Though, offensive air superiority, or, more to the point, choosing what you want to bombard (it's very annoying when you want to cause damage to garrisoned soldiers, but end up destroying an improvement)

[Cookie Monster]

Originally posted by benjdm
I can imagine doing this in two ways:

1. Have a 'fighter sweep' mission that you select a target for and the fighters engage enemy fighters on air superiority missions

2. When you try a bombard with a fighter, jet fighter, or F-15 and an enemy fighter is on air superiority the bombard is abandoned and the aircraft fight each other.

Number 2 is already present in the game if I'm not mistaken.

[Thrawn05]

I liked the SNES Civ way of air power.

Fighters can leave up to 8 tiles from a city, within that 8 tiles, the fighter has to do two things...

A: Travel to another city or carrier
B: Destroy another unit, and return to any city on the same turn.

If the fighter does not return to a city/carrier, the unit is lost due to lack of fuel.



For bombers, it's up to 12 tiles, and can stay in the air for two turns.

This means, it can attack a unit up to 12 tiles away, and still return the next turn, or, if your willing, destroy another unit another 12 tiles away, but the plane will be lost due to lack of fuel.

[Jon Shafer]

I don't think the new system is very good, IMO.
I think other ideas from Civ I and other people's ideas around here would work much better. Especially the whole deal with air combat... *shakes his head*

[benjdm]

2. When you try a bombard with a fighter, jet fighter, or F-15 and an enemy fighter is on air superiority the bombard is abandoned and the aircraft fight each other.

Number 2 is already present in the game if I'm not mistaken.

Really ? I didn't know that. Rarely have I been in a game where the AI got air power. Anyone else know whether this is true or not ?

[Inverse Icarus]

i wish there was a "kamakazie" switch for air units, whereas their range doubles but they die. i kamakazied fighters in civ2 all the time.

i also think you should be able to "group" air units for more dramatic battles. for example, you bomb with 3 stealh bombers and 4 stealth fighters. that way the fighters try to pick of the intercepting fighters while the bombers do their bombing.

i think that these 2 additions would add more strategy to the air game

[korn469]

i personally prefer the concept of air missions over the civ1/civ2 way of doing things, though i do think it can have better balance

air missions are exploit free, where as those of you who are looking through rose colored glasses forgot all of the exploits of the civ1/civ2 air system

a couple of those
*surround your city with air bases and it becomes bomber, missile, and nuke proof
*use air units to shield ground or sea units from attack
*fighters never fought each other, they only shot down bombers that hoovered for years at a time

also #2 is in the game, and with the appropriate settings (aka blitz mod settings ) it can make air warfare quite interesting

air missions is one of the best things in civ3!

[theEntity]

Originally posted by benjdm
2. When you try a bombard with a fighter, jet fighter, or F-15 and an enemy fighter is on air superiority the bombard is abandoned and the aircraft fight each other.

Number 2 is already present in the game if I'm not mistaken.

Really ? I didn't know that. Rarely have I been in a game where the AI got air power. Anyone else know whether this is true or not ?

I don't know whether it is true that the bombard is totally abandoned, but I do know that the two planes will fight each other, even when the attacker is a bomber.

I've had one game where France pounded my terrain imporvement with several bombers. I put jets on air superiority missions, and while my fighters managed to shoot down the bombers, they lost a few hit points themselves. No fighter was completely destroyed though, but I guess that would've been the case if the frech had attacked with fighters and not bombers.

[Akka]

Originally posted by theEntity

I don't know whether it is true that the bombard is totally abandoned, but I do know that the two planes will fight each other, even when the attacker is a bomber.

I've had one game where France pounded my terrain imporvement with several bombers. I put jets on air superiority missions, and while my fighters managed to shoot down the bombers, they lost a few hit points themselves. No fighter was completely destroyed though, but I guess that would've been the case if the frech had attacked with fighters and not bombers.

What would be good would be that you can put your fighters in "escort" mode, and they will fight any fighter that try to intercept the bomber escorted.

[Matte979]

The new Air mission system is way much better than the old,
move them seperate. As pointed out in previous post the old system was really a pain and was not balanced. I suggest you
test the old system now when you tried this one and you will realise that this is way better.

Air superiority is very good and way more realistic.
Rebase mission what a blessing. Recon fun mission not that useful though, I just wonder if you can be shoot down on recon.
Way faster system aswell the old system was slow.

Also try precision bombing when getting smart weapons fun fun fun.

/Mathias

[Adm.Naismith]

Originally posted by UberKruX
i also think you should be able to "group" air units for more dramatic battles. for example, you bomb with 3 stealh bombers and 4 stealth fighters. that way the fighters try to pick of the intercepting fighters while the bombers do their bombing.

If Firaxis add to the (ground) great leader the (air) great Ace concept, you can have a flying equivalent of an army (an Air Wing in USAF terms, IIRC).
Voila', easy to implement in game code, not sure about game balancing.