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How does one reduce the AI "Tech Whoring" in the new patch?
Is it by reducing the "AI to AI trade rate"? If so, then by how much?
-Alech
Is it by reducing the "AI to AI trade rate"? If so, then by how much?
-Alech
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"Build Ports when possible. A port gives you extra resources, as well as an extra tile for a unit to stand on." - Infogrames -
It is modified by AI to AI tech rate.
Currently they are set to...
Regent: 130
Monarch: 140
Emperor: 150
Deity: 160
Under 1.17f it used to be 200.
Using these i still found them to tech trade too fast and the Eras progress too quickly on Large map, Monarch level with 12 civs.
Therefore i set them to...
Regent: 110
Monarch: 115
Emperor: 120
Deity: 125
This is definitely better as it means the AI civs will treat you almost as fairly as they treat each other with regards to the cost of tech trading, resource trading, etc.
However another strategy popped into my mind to help slow down the pace of the early stages. That was to allow each civ only 1 of their 2 free techs at the start. Therefore, for example, a militaristic/commercial civ couldn't trade techs 2 for 2 as soon as met another non-militaristic/commercial civ at the beginning. They could only trade 1 for 1.
Try for yourself.
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I put them all on 100 each. As I understand it that means 100 gold is worth 100 gold. As it should be.
RobertA strategy guide? Yeah, it's what used to be called the manual.Comment
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This is not exactly true, so I should clarify.Originally posted by kailhun
I put them all on 100 each. As I understand it that means 100 gold is worth 100 gold. As it should be.
Robert
At all levels (including Deity), 100 gold (or a tech worth 100 gold) = 100 gold. When the AI's trade with each other, they always ask for full value for their techs, maps, comms, etc. However, the AI trading rate determines how much the AI will bend if the other AI does not have enough money (or techs/maps/coms) to meet its demands.
For example, let's say Civ A offers Map Making to Civ B. Let's say Civ A determines that Map Making is worth 100 gold. If Civ B has 100 gold, Civ A will only make the trade if Civ B gives up 100 gold. However, if Civ B does not have 100 gold (and doesn't have any maps, techs, comms valuable to Civ A), then Civ A will trade Map Making for less gold according to the trading rate. At Chieftain, it would need at least 91 gold (91 * 110% = 100) in return. At Deity, it would need at least 63 gold (63 * 160% = 100) from Civ B. It is a common practice for humans to make trades that aren't entirely "fair" because they recognize that getting half-value for a tech is better than getting nothing. This system merely sets parameters for allowing the AI to make a similar decision.
I hope this clarifies things.- What's that?
- It's a cannon fuse.
- What's it for?
- It's for my cannon.Comment
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Does an AI selling tech check around for the highest bidder, to the devaluation of techs as they are known to more civs (as I do)?The greatest delight for man is to inflict defeat on his enemies, to drive them before him, to see those dear to them with their faces bathed in tears, to bestride their horses, to crush in his arms their daughters and wives.
Duas uncias in puncta mortalis est.Comment
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I think so. The few times I get contacted by the AI and offered a tech is when I have lots of money, so I guess they use the same logic against other AI players.Comment
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How does this affect tournaments, multiplayer, and GOTM (civfanatics)?Originally posted by =DrJambo=
It is modified by AI to AI tech rate.
Currently they are set to...
Regent: 130
Monarch: 140
Emperor: 150
Deity: 160
Under 1.17f it used to be 200.
Using these i still found them to tech trade too fast and the Eras progress too quickly on Large map, Monarch level with 12 civs.
Therefore i set them to...
Regent: 110
Monarch: 115
Emperor: 120
Deity: 125
This is definitely better as it means the AI civs will treat you almost as fairly as they treat each other with regards to the cost of tech trading, resource trading, etc.
"What did you learn in school today, dear little boy of mine?
I learned our government must be strong. It's always right and never wrong,.....that's what I learned in school."
--- Tom Paxton song ('63)Comment
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I believe that now the bic settings are saved with the savegame, so you can't change them once you start...Comment
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Soren - HOW EXACTLY does Civ A determine this?Originally posted by Soren Johnson Firaxis
Civ A offers Map Making to Civ B. Let's say Civ A determines that Map Making is worth 100 gold."As far as general advice on mod-making: Go slow as far as adding new things to the game until you have the basic game all smoothed out ... Make sure the things you change are really imbalances and not just something that doesn't fit with your particular style of play." - WesWComment
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There is an AI function which estimates how much each tech is worth to each player. So Civ A calculates how much the tech is worth to Civ B. (The exact same function is used on the Diplomacy Window when you ask a civ how much they would need to trade you a tech...)Originally posted by lockstep
Soren - HOW EXACTLY does Civ A determine this?- What's that?
- It's a cannon fuse.
- What's it for?
- It's for my cannon.Comment
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I guess Civ A calculates how many science beakers Civ B would need to research the tech (due to tech devaluation), and how much money it would have to forgo therefore. But does Civ A ask for exact that sum of money? Or for a particular fraction of that sum?"As far as general advice on mod-making: Go slow as far as adding new things to the game until you have the basic game all smoothed out ... Make sure the things you change are really imbalances and not just something that doesn't fit with your particular style of play." - WesWComment
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crunched some numbers
The larger the map size the faster tech is aquired as a whole using the default tech rate values.Originally posted by =DrJambo=
Using these i still found them to tech trade too fast and the Eras progress too quickly on Large map, Monarch level with 12 civs.
The first reason is that there are more civs doing research. At the minimum research rate where it takes 40 turns to aquire a tech, 16 civs could crank out a new tech every 2.5 turns if there were no restrictions on what they could research and each civ was researching a different tech. As it is with 5 civs and tech swapping it is possible to get out of the Ancient period in 80 turns. On the larger maps with more civs this is more likely.
The other factor is that (IMO) the tech rates are too LOW on the larger maps. If every tile produced 1 beaker of research then the rate at which techs will be discovered would be proportional to number of tiles divided by the tech rate. The more tiles per tech rate the faster research gets done.
1.21f______tiles__tech____tiles____computed
values_____w * h__rate__per tRate__techrate
-------- ------ ---- --------- --------
Tiny_______3,600___160____22.5_________85
Small______6,400___200_____32_________155
Standard__10,000___240____41.7_______*240*
Large_____16,900___320____52.8________405
Huge______25,600___400_____64_________615
The computed tech rate is number of tiles divided by 41.7 and rounded off. This scales the research rate on all map sizes to be the same as the current rate on the standard size map. It is my best guess at what the tech rate "should" be.
Both the factors make research happen faster on the larger maps.
MikeComment
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(hope soren doesnt run away after i join the thread)
how do they determine what it's worth to another civ? do they realize if they're on a small island and seel sea techs for more? do they see horses in their territory and trade it for more?
open source it
"I've lived too long with pain. I won't know who I am without it. We have to leave this place, I am almost happy here."
- Ender, from Ender's Game by Orson Scott CardComment
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I've noticed in my latest game that the AI doesn't seem to value dead-end techs that give a wonder which has already been built (Music Theory, Free Artistry), which is good. The AI has gone from offering the tech for a large sum of money to offering it for 10 gold the turn after the wonder has been built.
Comment
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yup, you did it ... he's goneOriginally posted by UberKruX
(hope soren doesnt run away after i join the thread)
how do they determine what it's worth to another civ? do they realize if they're on a small island and seel sea techs for more? do they see horses in their territory and trade it for more?
open source it
AJ
PS What about correct starting locations
PPS Why is it impossible to aim for a tech lead in on emp/deity
PPPS I mean aiming for it from the start on, not near the end of the game
" Deal with me fairly and I'll allow you to breathe on ... for a while. Deal with me unfairly and your deeds shall be remembered and punished. Your last human remains will feed the vultures who circle in large numbers above the ruins of your once proud cities. "
- emperor level all time
- I'm back !!! (too...)Comment
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