Why So Slow? What's the Bottleneck?

[Capt Dizle]

The point isn't that adding RAM will improve performance. The point is that the game's performance using the minimum system requirements is not acceptable.

P...l..e..a..s..e.....w...a...i...t............... ......

Secondly, if users of a GAME, which is supposed to be FUN, have to tweak their system and BUY additional hardware hasn't someone FAILED?

Yes, they did. Consumers have a right to expect more than we had to put up with in the days of Dos to play a game.

Thirdly, there isn't any measurable advantage to these delays. The AI still is predictable and utterly unimaginitive. Just as easily beatable, but now, in addition to having to wait, or buy hardware, or both, we also get the endless tedium of killing unit after unit after unit after unit.

[asleepathewheel]

Originally posted by jimmytrick
The point isn't that adding RAM will improve performance. The point is that the game's performance using the minimum system requirements is not acceptable.

P...l..e..a..s..e.....w...a...i...t............... ......

hahaha!!!
nice one jt!

what piece of software performs flawlessly on "miinimum requirements"? And I suppose that you think XP runs perfectly on 64 mg ram too!!! roflmao!!!!!

[Capt Dizle]

Civ2 and SMAC ran very well on machines equiped with the minimum requirements for those games. Thank you very much.

[Inverse Icarus]

civ2 could be run on a diskwasher running linux and wine

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by jimmytrick
Secondly, if users of a GAME, which is supposed to be FUN, have to tweak their system and BUY additional hardware hasn't someone FAILED?

A troll is a troll is a troll v4.22.1

Chimmini Christos, now you're getting out-right silly Jimmy. I make a darn good living off the games that drive people into my place of employment to buy $700 video cards (Canadian). You want to know the best part? They're always back in another 12 to 24 months for the next $500 to $700 video card. all the way to the bank.

Ohhh. Sorry. I guess Quake and every other popular shooter ever published were done by a bunch of failures.

Oh well...

[Tuberski]

I run on an AMD K6-2 500 Mhz with 96 megs of RAM. I have NEVER, even on huge maps, had to wait more than 45 seconds between turns. I remember playing Civilization on an Amiga with MAYBE 1 meg of RAM, that was MUCH slower than this is.

[Tuberski]

System maintenance and running minimal background programs is essential. Explorer and systray. Of course, I don't use sound(after 10 minutes or so it gets irritating). I use no animations, why should I? Thet don't add much to the game.

[Tuberski]

Oh, I did notice that it runs a little slower with 1.21f than it did with 1.17f. Even in Ancient Times.

[Capt Dizle]

I am not the one being silly. Civ is not the type of game that has anything going on that should require people to add hardware.

People who buy shooters and such know going in that they may very well have performance problems.

You are comparing apples and oranges.

[notyoueither]

Jimmy. 128M is below minimum for most good systems today running most current titles.

[Edit] For enjoyable performance that is. [/Edit]

[ACooper]

It is very true that the "minimum requirements" were stated much too low. That is a common problem in the software industry. It is wrong (and maybe deceptive).

My point is that if you maintain your system it will run better over all whether your playing Civ3, MS Word or Photoshop. I (fortunately) have a steady stream of business from the "my computer doesn't run right" crowd when all they really need is a little maintenance and maybe more RAM. Also people don't realize that everything on you desktop uses some system resources, so keeping it clean also helps with free space in RAM.

I do notice a big difference in game speed overall (not just between turns) between my laptop (PIII 600 w/ 256 ram) and my desktop (P4 1.8 w/ 512 RAM). I have also noticed when my laptop starts to be annoying a few simple maintenance procedures and it helps alot with whatever I use it for.

There probably is some coding issues. (Maybe alot) We know that the pathfinding routines have alot to do with it. What's the solution? Could the programers cut a few corners and use a simpler (less effective) routine? I would guess that it continues to be optimizedby the programers, but what happens when it's optimized to the point where it is pointless to work on it anymore?

Are there other areas of the code that are not optimized? I see people posting such claims, but where is the evidence? Maybe I'm missing something but I don't understand. Soren has admitted to where the problem is. What else do you think it could be?

[Tuberski]

What was wrong with the pathfinding in Civ 2? Worked for me why change it just because systems are faster?

[Capt Dizle]

Thank you Cooper for a very good post.

btw, I think part of the problem is it in the culture routines, but I admit I can't prove it...I do remember a Firaxis comment alluding to it as a contributing cause, but I can't find it....I think they "decided" to blame it all on the AI pathfinding because culture has recieved a fair amount of criticism already...

Did I say thanks for the objective post Coop..

[ACooper]

Originally posted by jimmytrick
Thank you Cooper for a very good post.

btw, I think part of the problem is it in the culture routines, but I admit I can't prove it...I do remember a Firaxis comment alluding to it as a contributing cause, but I can't find it....I think they "decided" to blame it all on the AI pathfinding because culture has recieved a fair amount of criticism already...

Did I say thanks for the objective post Coop..

Thanks, I think.

I do remember your culture routine argument from earlier and I think on lower end machines it probably is a contributing factor. Everything the program does has some effect. I can see where if you don't like culture it might seem a waste of time and processing power. Every computer program I have bought (or whatever ) has part of it I don't like or use. I like the culture part of the game, but maybe in some future patch it could be turn on or off by a rule setting. (Though I doubt they would do this)

Just remember, maintain your computer and get some more ram. (Or you could hire a guy like me and I could get a new van.)

[Grrr]

Originally posted by Wittlich
I too have noticed that the late game runs way to slow with more than 4 AI civilizations - and my computer is an 866MHz, 526K ram.

I only play with 4 AI civs now...and the late game does slow down, but nothing like it was doing with 6+ AI civs in play.

526KB of RAM, Civ III runs on that . Civ 2 ran like **** on my 486 with 1mb of RAM