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Historic dates for Civ3 ages

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  • Historic dates for Civ3 ages

    How would you date the Civ3 ages? Specifically, where is the border between the ancient and medieval ages, between medieval and industrial, and between industrial and modern.
    The following is how I seperated the ages. I chose military technology to devide the ages, but you may want to use other technologies.

    Ancient to Medieval 1300
    The cannon is the weapon the best sets the medieval age apart for me. The cannon was developed in the first decade of 14th century (according to the Encyclopedia Brittanica, War, Technology of, my source for this thread). Before the invention of the cannon, siege warfare was very long and costly. The besiegers often ran out of supplies before the besieged. There were many siege weapons known to the ancients, but none were effective at breaching stone walls.
    Shoulder guns did not appear on the battlefield until the matchlock firing mechanism came on the scene in about 1425. It would take until about 1550 before the musket and pike combination became dominant in European warfare.
    Other of the Civ3 military units came on the historic scene before 1300, but nothing which made the bang that gunpowder did. Longbowman, knights, and war elephants all predate 1300, but none of their technologies seems epoch making to me. Aside, does anyone else get the feeling that computer strategy game designers are enthralled by war elephants (Civ2, Civ3, AoE2)? Elephants do not like loud noises or sharp points and were almost as likely to trample friend as foe.

    Medieval to Industrial 1849
    The Minie rifle (1849) changed the face of battle. It was the first rifle which could be effectively used in battle, because it could be loaded as fast as a musket. The Minie rifle had an effective range of five times that of a smothbore.
    Another possible date for the begining of the in industrial age is 1830, since the industrial revolution began about 1830 in England.

    Industrial to Modern 1945
    The bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki set the modern age apart for me. Aside, I think that the Civ3 designers dropped the ball by not including a guerrilla unit. Guerrilla warfare has been the most important type of warfare since 1945, in my humble opinion. The colonial wars of liberation after WWII, the hot wars of the Cold war period, and most of the wars today (e.g. Israeli-Palestinian) were mostly fought be guerrillas on at least one side.

    Write in and tell me what you think seperates the ages.



  • #2
    Those ages are pretty much right. I'd put the modern age a little earlier into WWII but thats all.
    Grrr | Pieter Lootsma | Hamilton, NZ | grrr@orcon.net.nz
    Waikato University, Hamilton.

    Comment


    • #3
      TREBUCHETS

      Cannons did not start seeing widespread use until well into the 13th century, for sieges.

      Before that the TREBUCHET had already made castles rather vulnerable. The trebuchet was far superior to a catapult hulrling a huge stone (big enough to knock holes in any wall) well over 200 yards - and that was out of effective bow range.

      Firaxis excluding the trebuchet from the Units is another problem with the game. Heck, we can always change the useless helicopter to a trebuchet: all bombardment units get a few extra points, and the trebuchet falls between catapult and cannon.


      War elephants should be 3.1.2 and at slightly cheaper cost. They were terrible on defense, and problematic on offense. They also should NOT have airlift capability!

      We had guerrilla/partisans in Civ 2. If you slightly Edit Explorer making it a bit stronger it can have the same effect. Great for harassment and pillaging.

      All post-gunpowder units must be stronger.

      Comment


      • #4
        Elephants can be airlifted! That's a bit like loading 2 tanks onto a trireme.
        Grrr | Pieter Lootsma | Hamilton, NZ | grrr@orcon.net.nz
        Waikato University, Hamilton.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Grrr
          Elephants can be airlifted! That's a bit like loading 2 tanks onto a trireme.
          Just look in the Editor.

          Firaxis shows its CONTEMPT for us by not changing such stupidities as airlifting CAVALRY, MODERN ARMOR, WAR CHARIOTS, and elephants - but NOT allowing airlifting of a single Leader!

          They also have kept their stupid unit values, one of the worst being cruise missiles having a range of only '2'!!

          BTW, according to the rules there is indeed nothing in the dopey rules to prevent tanks from loading on galleys - the same galleys that can sail in OCEANS after a few advances are reached.

          Comment


          • #6
            Leaders can't be airlifted??? I have never tried.
            Grrr | Pieter Lootsma | Hamilton, NZ | grrr@orcon.net.nz
            Waikato University, Hamilton.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Grrr
              Leaders can't be airlifted??? I have never tried.
              Check that Editor. Arrogant Firaxis has made no change in their insane airlifting rules. We have to waste time Editing, Editing!

              Comment


              • #8
                That is incredibly stupid! Damn all the hard coding in CivIII.
                Grrr | Pieter Lootsma | Hamilton, NZ | grrr@orcon.net.nz
                Waikato University, Hamilton.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Coracle, I'm with you (although with other priorities than airlift capabilities, then again, the list of desperately needed approvals is still rather large)!

                  Don't like editing everything myself neither ...





                  Firaxis, aren't you ashamed that this popular product that's sold all over the world is now followed up by IIRC only TWO PROGRAMMERS ??????????

                  You'll lose ... even faster than you can imagine ... don't you feel the heat of the competition?

                  You could have changed a lot more.

                  AJ

                  Ps: Can someone inform me about the correct starting locations on world maps that was requested by so many before? Two/three months ago I remember Mike was 'working' on it ...

                  And don't start about the editor again, please ...
                  " Deal with me fairly and I'll allow you to breathe on ... for a while. Deal with me unfairly and your deeds shall be remembered and punished. Your last human remains will feed the vultures who circle in large numbers above the ruins of your once proud cities. "
                  - emperor level all time
                  - I'm back !!! (too...)

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Whoops, I'm sorry White Pine, this isn't what your thread is about.

                    Your idea about 'milestones' to separate ages is very good IMO.

                    Programming this might be an answer to 'spaceship arrival in 1200AD': once you get a certain tech, you make a 'jump' to the according time in real life history.

                    Turns remain turns, but this better timetable could be easily implemented I suppose ...



                    AJ
                    " Deal with me fairly and I'll allow you to breathe on ... for a while. Deal with me unfairly and your deeds shall be remembered and punished. Your last human remains will feed the vultures who circle in large numbers above the ruins of your once proud cities. "
                    - emperor level all time
                    - I'm back !!! (too...)

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Wouldn't that put an end to the game ending in 2020 though. Wouldn't that mean that I could play forever providing I don't research future technology.
                      Grrr | Pieter Lootsma | Hamilton, NZ | grrr@orcon.net.nz
                      Waikato University, Hamilton.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Coracle
                        They also have kept their stupid unit values, one of the worst being cruise missiles having a range of only '2'!!
                        Well, by definition a "cruise" missile has a maximum range of 300 km. After this, you call it a "ballistic" missile.
                        300-1500 km = short range ballistic missile
                        1500-5500 km= medium range
                        5500+ km = long range

                        Hope it clears things out.
                        In Soviet Russia, Fake borises YOU.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          A cruise Missle with a range of two isn't going to clear much out though.
                          Grrr | Pieter Lootsma | Hamilton, NZ | grrr@orcon.net.nz
                          Waikato University, Hamilton.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Grrr
                            A cruise Missle with a range of two isn't going to clear much out though.
                            Especially since you'll have to dive into the editor to make it actually kill/destruct something.

                            Aren't missiles referred to as 'weapons of (mass) destruction' in real life?

                            AJ
                            " Deal with me fairly and I'll allow you to breathe on ... for a while. Deal with me unfairly and your deeds shall be remembered and punished. Your last human remains will feed the vultures who circle in large numbers above the ruins of your once proud cities. "
                            - emperor level all time
                            - I'm back !!! (too...)

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Yeah. And they should not really have the same damage each time. If you hit a ship in the right place, it will sink first time, yet you can also throw 16 missiles at it and it wont sink.
                              Grrr | Pieter Lootsma | Hamilton, NZ | grrr@orcon.net.nz
                              Waikato University, Hamilton.

                              Comment

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