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Call To Power 2 Cradle 3+ mod in progress: https://apolyton.net/forum/other-games/call-to-power-2/ctp2-creation/9437883-making-cradle-3-fully-compatible-with-the-apolyton-edition
I would _love_ to see a saved game from just before you contacted the Zulus. Any chance?
eugh, sorry soren but in my first default 1.21 i had this prob too, it wasn't as bad as 1.17 but still... next game i am gonna adjust the slider somewhat
btw: no savegame, just deletd them all, sorry
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him God? - Epicurus
nope, full delete, need a new hard drive, i mean what 40GIG in this age!!!!!!(ok, i have some divx, and my cdwr is caput
civ3 i have paid for ok
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him God? - Epicurus
Do we have to adjust the tech trading rate in the editor to cut down on the AI tech trading rate compared to 1.17f? Or do the default settings already include toning it down?
Furthermore, there seem to be instances of AI tech trading during the player's turn again. I do have a saved game of this, which I posted to another thread.
Originally posted by gnome
Something I'm concerned I'm missing here.
Do we have to adjust the tech trading rate in the editor to cut down on the AI tech trading rate compared to 1.17f? Or do the default settings already include toning it down?
Furthermore, there seem to be instances of AI tech trading during the player's turn again. I do have a saved game of this, which I posted to another thread.
It's already toned done via the default settings (the AI-to-AI tech trading rate was 200 in 1.17, now it ranges between 110 and 160 depending on difficulty level... plus the cost of techs has been increased significantly and tech devaluation has been reduced...)
The AI should never be trading during your turn. If you have proof otherwise, that would be a bug, and I would be happy to take a look at it.
- What's that?
- It's a cannon fuse.
- What's it for?
- It's for my cannon.
The greatest delight for man is to inflict defeat on his enemies, to drive them before him, to see those dear to them with their faces bathed in tears, to bestride their horses, to crush in his arms their daughters and wives.
Originally posted by Soren Johnson Firaxis
It's already toned done via the default settings (the AI-to-AI tech trading rate was 200 in 1.17, now it ranges between 110 and 160 depending on difficulty level... plus the cost of techs has been increased significantly and tech devaluation has been reduced...)
This is precisely what many many players have been waiting to hear. Getting the details on this issue (as opposed to "AI tech trading reduced") is really going to quell pointless debates.
Hurray to Firaxis for fixing this problem. Time to build some Libraries before Industrialization!
Dominae
And her eyes have all the seeming of a demon's that is dreaming...
Also thanks for the clarification, Soren. However, I'd still like to know the exact formula for tech devaluation in v1.21f. (Does it still depend on the number of active civs?)
"As far as general advice on mod-making: Go slow as far as adding new things to the game until you have the basic game all smoothed out ... Make sure the things you change are really imbalances and not just something that doesn't fit with your particular style of play." - WesW
I would _love_ to see a saved game from just before you contacted the Zulus. Any chance?
Sorry, Soren, as I didn't anticipate that this would be of interest to Firaxis programmers, I didn't archive the record for posterity. I started and stopped several games in that session, using different civs in different situations. Since I considered these games experimental, and didn't intend to finish them, I went through the save folder and deleted everything (and, yes, I emptied the trash, too--habit).
I appreciate that you've made some adjustments, but my quick and dirty conclusion is that the effects of AI tech-trading and the relative trade values of tech and gold haven't changed enough to significantly alter game play. You shouldn't have too much difficulty replicating this kind of result, if you are truly concerned.
FWIW for me to say so, I didn't post to this thread to trash the product. This is simply what I experience in my games: AI-to-AI tech trading that makes my research efforts feel quite pointless. I understand that the workaround strategies are explore (to get civ contacts and devalue the map), generate gold and buy techs instead of researching them (which *really* devalues the game enjoyment for me, quite frankly) and check trade opportunities frequently (but this game already has enough rote/repetitive tasks to perform without adding do-a-round-of-diplomacy-with-every-civ-every-turn to the repetitive task list).
I posted to get input from others about how to customize factors in the game to rebalance trade so that tech research might become a meaningful game strategy again, since they seem to be saying that's possible now. BTW, folks, if someone has clearly answered my question, I missed it. Here's a helpful assumption for you: assume I've never opened the Civ Editor in my life (which I haven't until I read this thread) and haven't a clue how it works. Assume that all I want to do is fix this (if possible), save that fix, and try playing the game again.
I'd just like to offer my thanks to Soren also, who found my other thread and posted a very useful reply. It turns out there is no out-of-turn trading, instead I just hadn't realized a nuance about tech trading.
IMO, Firaxis did a great job in fixing the tech trading in 1.21. With 1.17, it was common to sell a tech to two civs, and then have the third and fourth civs offer me nothing but 1 gold for the tech. With 1.21, the price of tech seems to stay the same, and civs are not selling techs to each other as much. There are some civs who have more tech than me, and others that are still, three or four behind. THe other civs are now charging high prices for techs, but that's good, and way better than 1.17. THe outrageous trading has stopped!
HURRAY TO FIRAXIS FOR SOLVING THIS PROBLEM THAT MADE THE GAME A "ME AGAINST THE WORLD" ISSUE!
I'm one tech into the modern age in my first 1.21f game (Monarch level), and seven techs ahead of the AIs (in spite of starting on the small side of a 5/3 split in who starts on which continent). Here are some first impressions:
1) AIs are still quite willing to trade with each other, to a point where of the five surviving AIs, the only clear difference is that France is one tech behind. Still, it's been a turn or two since I traded Atomic Theory to the rest of the world (in my centennial tech-for-luxuries swap) and France hasn't gotten it yet, and the difference in size among the AIs isn't big enough for it to be obviously wrong for them to be fairly even in tech.
By the way, that evenness isn't all bad. When an AI that can't afford to pay gold for your tech or luxuries has something like Nationalism, Communism, or Espionage (none of which I normally research myself), it opens up the option of getting gold and luxuries from the wealthier AIs and then still getting the tech from a poor one.
2) I LIKE the way tech doesn't devalue as quickly. This last round of luxury purchases, I was able to use a single tech - Atomic Theory - to get two luxuries out of one AI and one each out of two others (although I think I had to throw in a luxury of my own to one that had probably already been doing some research). Timing as many tech-for-luxury deals as possible to expire at the same time (and making sure you renegotiate them during your turn instead of during the AIs' turns) definitely pays.
3) I was able to do well for myself starting putting gold into research early. I doubt that I would have tried as much as early without a decent amount of river around my starting position, but so far, so good.
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