Are you satisfied?

[delfino]

Originally posted by Martin Gühmann


So did you ever tried modded CTP2, it offers all this stuff? And more governments, more tile improvements, more terrains, more features.

And if This is not enough add some more buildings, wonders, terrains, orders, goods, governments, buildings, units, tile improvements, techs, AI strategies, turns, city styles, ages. And if you find this is just some boring rhule tweaking than add some new features, if you ever wanted to enslave the whole population of a city when you conquer it - no problem thanks to the scripting language slic. Or what about prisioners of war or refugies, re-adding the element of guerillas known from Civ2. A pop-boom when a certain advance is discovered...

-Martin

yeah I know that there a lot of additions to CTP2. but I would like to see some of that stuff going into Civ3 as well. in fact I would like to be able to merge the two together. have ceased to play CTP2 long ago, might have another go at it soon.

[Martin Gühmann]

Originally posted by delfino
yeah I know that there a lot of additions to CTP2. but I would like to see some of that stuff going into Civ3 as well. in fact I would like to be able to merge the two together. have ceased to play CTP2 long ago, might have another go at it soon.

N. Machiavelli discribed the problem here perfectly, if a feature needs too much work than it won't be included or if it won't work in the final game than it will be removed, so costumizability is a feature that seems to require a lot of work, so Firaxis says we can't handle it so no way. The same is true for stacked combat armies instead of units, the problem here is that you have to write some routines for your AI to stack its units, so Firaxis thought that is to much work let's skip, and there are right that this is a lot of work and if it does not work than the AI would look lame, passive and stupid. But it is always worth to do this kind of work.

Some of the other features I mentioned above requires a scripting language like slic in CTP2 or the availability of the Civ3 source code. But I think a scripting language won't be in Civ3:

"I don't believe in giving scripting languages because the only additional power they give users is the power to create bugs." - Mike Breitkreutz, Firaxis

Mike just forgot one thing a scripting language gives also the power to the user to fix the bugs of the programers, and increases the potential of the game immense. So I must say Civ3 is to cautious or better to shy in improving the genre. But I must admid Firaxis is just a game company that wants to make money. And from this point of view Civ3 is a success it doesn't count for them if you play the game in three years still. Actual that would be bad for them as you wouldn't desire to buy a new game. So they just try to maximize their profit by minimizing their work. And their aren't punished so far, here in Berlin the German version of the game I think is still offered for 50? actual 40? - 45? is a good price for a new game but I would say Civ3 is now worth 30? - 35? not more rather less.

-Martin

[Harovan]

Originally posted by Martin Gühmann
But I must admid Firaxis is just a game company that wants to make money.

At least Firaxis released a game, sure with many flaws, but it's a game. Not like Activision, who sold the customers a game construction kit with a lousy demo for the price of a game.

[Andrew Cory]

Originally posted by Sir Ralph


At least Firaxis released a game, sure with many flaws, but it's a game. Not like Activision, who sold the customers a game construction kit with a lousy demo for the price of a game.

Oh dear, which game was that?

[ahenobarb]

Originally posted by PatLasch
So far only 21% are not satisfied. Firaxis is a busines and so far it looks like they have left people wanting more, Isn't that what they should be doing? They haven't abandoned the game, and we all know that more is planned. They're doing their best.

It depends on how you interpret the poll. "Yes, but I wish there were more", sounds restless. I don't think too many people want to blaze guns and say "dissatisfied". But there could and indeed should be more (I think everyone had been expecting more, at least I know I did in the run up to the development of Civ III).

You're right there are doing their best, but shouldn't they be doing their best to give us "more"?

[Martin Gühmann]

Originally posted by Sir Ralph
At least Firaxis released a game, sure with many flaws, but it's a game. Not like Activision, who sold the customers a game construction kit with a lousy demo for the price of a game.

Actual it is a construction kit, it allows to create unlimited games next to the original game, currently we have five diffrent games: MedPack2, ApolytonPack, Cradle, World at War and of course GoodMod, and that isn't the end. Activision's fault to drop the game to early in order to maximize their profit. So in the end Firaxis just released one single game and not five or more. At least CTP2 never cost more than a game like Civ3, Sid's name does not improve it so much, that it is worth the extra money, but there are people think exactly this and bought it.

-Martin

[Dr Strangelove]

NO! I'm not satisfied! Civ 3 is just as bad as Civ:CTP! When I've completely eliminated a civilization, and I do mean with absolute certainty, and that civ refuses to die and continues to be technically at war with me thereby causing a permanent major morale problem, I call that faulty programming. Face it, Civ 3 is bugged!

The Activision support staff for CTP was bad enough, they were utterly useless and arrogant as well, but the Civ 3 support staff won't even reply to e-mail....ever.

I will never buy another Firaxis game, and I will never again buy one of Sid's games. Tragically he has killed the very genre he created.

[Inverse Icarus]

a lot of people would consider a construction set a step up from civ3

[Unspeakable Horror]

You are right!

[Uncle Thade]

I voted No! also, I am not satisfied at all with this product and it came out in a seriously flawed state. I have spoken at length with many of my friends who are civer's and we, all 13 of us, have come to the conclusion that FIRAXIS should recall this product and finish it!!!

While there are some fantastic things in this new imagining of CIV I believe INFORGRAMES forced FIRAXIS to push out this yet undeveloped product.

The litany of complaints in this forum is an indication of how many problems there are in this game.

For example: AI that just won't listen, when asked to move from your territory it simply meanders about your empire trying to find it's way home; AI that is far too skewed in favor of the AI dominating ( I wouldn't mind if the AI was balanced and trade, Technology Trading, asinine deals, etc.); War, yeah sometimes I like to be a warmonger, but this war weariness is also asinine, once again it should be like pollution in previous CIV's turn it on or off; Battleships versus Frigates, Tanks vs. Phalanx's is still not fixed; no multiplayer (as promised); unrealistic movement through the ages; AI city building is freaking hilarious (how much code is skewed to ensure it builds non stop with no hinderance from government, technology, etc.); AI Unit overbuilding when having to sit through 8 civs and anywhere from 30 - 100 units on screen moving even with everything turned off is monotonous, I have yet to have the patience to finish a game where I don't have to sit and watch the parade of units; mid to late game boredom and imbalance; Advances that are only worth advancing to another advance and give no value what so ever after discovering them; GW's not doing their jobs; laughable dimplomacy ( i've seen better in my little sister's Playtime with Barbie when Ken comes over to put the moves on the old Barbster); I've said this before but Wonder Movies (yeah we all turn them off after a while) but they inspired me several times when I had played CIVII for the millionth time; flawed combat, resources, no terraforming and so on and so forth... I could go on for pages.

Anyhow, I am uninstalling, trading CIV III in and finding a game that isn't unfinished and full of imbalanced gameplay. I have never finished this game and I have been CIVing since CIV came out, so this is truly a depressing day for me. My gaming money is very important to me and when I am duped into buying something just because it has somebodies name attached to it (shall we revisit Diakatana), I for one am very offended and sad that the industry has come to this. I could have waited another year for CIV III, but then again who's to say that extra year would have helped. Compared to CIV III, SMAC-X and CIV II are masterpieces. It will be a while before FIRAXIS gets my trust back, so we'll see how they handle an expansion and multiplayer, but for now I am shelving everything FIRAXIS. I hope the MOO3 team looked at CIV III and said to themsleves better not do any of this...

...still I am faithful fan of the CIV series and will continue to support it but CIV III is quite frankly a coffee coaster.

[Thrawn05]

I'm still happy with Civ3. I just bough JK2, and find myself playing Civ3 more then that (I sent JK2 back BTW).

[SpencerH]

No.

[BucksRock]

Definitely NO as well. So what's the "ignore percentage" on this one, Danny-boy?

[hexagonian]

Originally posted by Sir Ralph
At least Firaxis released a game, sure with many flaws, but it's a game. Not like Activision, who sold the customers a game construction kit with a lousy demo for the price of a game.

Ahhh..., but now CTP2 can be had cheaply, and due to the work of Modding community, is suddenly looking a lot better.

Here's one for you...

Firaxis will release a comprehensive Editor as a Gold Edition (and they WILL charge for it, mark my words) and the customer will end up paying a lot more for the civ3 experience than he paid for the CTP2 experience.

Funny, because the Editor was promoted as an included feature before the game ever hit the shelves.

And Firaxis has already said that any scripting language used in civ3 will not be released because they (Firaxis) do not think that the fans will have any ability with it other than to create more bugs!!!

I'll stay with the incredible construction kit that is CTP2, thank you very much.

[Nostromo]

Yin pointed out a while ago that satisfaction is function of expectation. Those who expected that Civ 3 would be God's gift to civers are, understandably, very disappointed right now. Well, believe it or not, I actually enjoy this game. It's not perfect, far from it, but I nonetheless enjoy it. And for those who expect too much out of life, I would suggest the following website.
www.despair.com