Back Stabbing AI

[twistedx]

Has anybody noticed that the AI sometimes seems to repay your kindness by declaring war on you? I am playing a game where Greece (me), China, and India are on the same continent. China loves me, and so did India -- India was gracious towards me for atleast a dozen turns. To make sure I stayed in their good favor, I gave India 2 luxuries and and resource they didn't have. For no apparent reason, India did a sneak attack on me an declared war the NEXT TURN.

China & I signed an alliance and crushed that pruned-faced bastard Ghandi, so no harm done. Has anybody had similar experiences, and (more importantly) does anybody know *WHY* the AI does this? This seems to happen every game I play, so maybe it's a flaw in my strategy. But it seems to happen most often when the country is supposedly "gracious" towards me. Is there such a thing as being too nice to the AI?

-- twistedx

[Jaybe]

Back Stabbing

The AI probably does it (you could rationalize) for the same reasons player do it: Imperial Expansion (or dreams thereof)!

Just because it's all cold software (thank you Firaxis!), doesn't mean they should always be rational -- WE are not always rational! Time for a decision 'roll' comes up; the randomizer draw is a little extreme, presto: a meglomaniac has taken over the government (isn't it strange how the face never changes in this game).

Among other things, it has been 'discovered' that if a civ has a huge army lying about after knocking out another civ, it may want to try knocking on someone else's door. Must be getting a little taste for blood.

--
Meanwhile, the only "being too nice to the AI" that I am aware of is having too small of an army.

JB

[~Vodka~]

I have had the same experiences with Ghandi (the indians are the only ones who have done this to me, so far) I just make sure to get rid of his balemic , nose-picking, knuckle-draggin, Rasinette lookin, and overall DIRTY, LOW DOWN, NO GOOD ROTTEN @ss As SOON AS POSSIBLE!!

As you can probably tell, I have had many a run-in with Ghandi's tactics. He just so happens to be ONCE AGAIN the thorn in my side in my latest attempt in Emperor difficulty; I won't bother going into detail but lets just say this: never, and I Mean NEVER grant Ghandi a Mutual Protection Pact unless you are playing chieftan or somthing like that.

The moment I game him MPP (witch cost him 1 tech and some luxuries, I thought I was getting a deal) he went to war with the French who were adjacent to me... He is on my left, French on my right.... I am stuck in the middle with only a few knights and swordsmen to try and fend off the french onslaught of 40+ Knights AND LOADS of friggin archers !0

I think its a programmer joke, ya know trying to make Ghandi as far from the real person as possible (good job, hats off guys).

Ugh, must ... kill. ... rasinette-man.... !

[Coracle]

Wrong. We've gone over this before.

REAL leaders are not just simple-minded bean counters who occasionally engage in shameless backstabbing.

Only on the RAREST instances in History have leaders gone from Polite or Gracious (yes, I've seen it) to back-stabbing invaders.


Hitler and Hirohito/Tojo had ICY relations with the Soviets and Americans in 1941 when they sneak attacked.

When the Japs sneak attacked the Russians in 1904 and a decade before that the Chinese they had ICY relations.

Off hand, I can't think of any instances in History where a major power sneak attacked a neighbor he had good relations with.

[Pyrodrew]

Imagine if us humans & the AI were restricted from doing any backstabbing simply because the relations were good... boy that would suck.

[~Vodka~]

"I told ya! But, oh no ya wouldn't listen would ya, just a harmless little bunny rabbit.."

-Tim; Monty Python; Quest for the Holy Greil

[Inverse Icarus]

Originally posted by Coracle
Wrong. We've gone over this before.

REAL leaders are not just simple-minded bean counters who occasionally engage in shameless backstabbing.

Only on the RAREST instances in History have leaders gone from Polite or Gracious (yes, I've seen it) to back-stabbing invaders.


Hitler and Hirohito/Tojo had ICY relations with the Soviets and Americans in 1941 when they sneak attacked.

When the Japs sneak attacked the Russians in 1904 and a decade before that the Chinese they had ICY relations.

Off hand, I can't think of any instances in History where a major power sneak attacked a neighbor he had good relations with.

who said that the AI's face being Gracious actually aligned with his/her intentions? sure it's probably all bullsh1t, and the AI is probably programmed to hit you when you least expect it, but it's a nice way to think about it

[watorrey]

When i see a 'sneak' attack coming, i know nothing i do will change it. Therefore i make trade deals and give a ROP to the civ even if i have to pay for it (it's gonna go away in a turn or two anyway).

I am assuming they take the same diplomatic hit i do when they break deals and am out to ruin thier reputation.

[~Vodka~]

Wouldn't you try to get as many MMPs as you could?

Try and at least force the civ sneakin' you to get raped by his AI bretheren after the fact.

[Shadowlord]

Originally posted by ~Vodka~
Wouldn't you try to get as many MMPs as you could?

Try and at least force the civ sneakin' you to get raped by his AI bretheren after the fact.

That's the whole point of the alliances system - everyone allies with other nations, so if one nation attacks another, they get squished by the defenders' allies.

Of course, that's the whole reason World War I started. In a simplified nutshell, there were two big groups of allied nations in Europe, the alliances were mostly secret, and one nation from one alliance attacked a nation from the other alliance, and the rest of Europe got pulled into the war by their alliances with the two minor warring nations....

Who wants to build a WWI Civ III scenario?

[~Vodka~]

Thats my point! If you're goin down, take all the dirty AIs with you!

[watorrey]

Originally posted by ~Vodka~
Wouldn't you try to get as many MMPs as you could?

Try and at least force the civ sneakin' you to get raped by his AI bretheren after the fact.

It doesn't do any good in the early game.

[Inverse Icarus]

MPP's are evil. wacky AI's that see themselves aligned with the human seem to go off on wild attacks that they assume you will fight for them.

[Jaybe]

Originally posted by UberKruX
MPP's are evil. wacky AI's that see themselves aligned with the human seem to go off on wild attacks that they assume you will fight for them.

Agreed. But they also enhance your relations with the countries you have the MPPs with. My last game I did a stupid and had a UN vote. Chinese had longterm MPPs with many of the other civs: they got the vote, and I had to load up the AutoSave.

Also, wacky human players that see themselves aligned with the AI's seem to go off on wild attacks that they assume the AI will fight for them.

[asleepathewheel]

MPPs are evil. This is what happened to me yesterday:

At war for maybe 40-50 turns with about 5 civs (including myself) against 3 nations (the other 10 had been killed off, either during this war or in the centuries preceeding.) Anyway, I traveled via rail all the way across the pangea to destroy the English. This was done succesffuly, the English were driven into the sea.

well, about this time, the Japanese (my ally) attacked the persians and the babylonians, which drew me into more wars. I wouldn't have cared, except for the fact that I had a ROP w/ the persians that I used to attack the english. So now, almost all of my offensive units (modern armor) were on one side of the map, in my new english cities, and my homeland on the other. luckily my other allies, the zulu and the French (how did they survive this long?) were a buffer, so I could build a new attack force to attack the persians. This ended up not being a big deal, I eventually captured all but one persian city ( a city on an island I forgot about, would have demanded it for peace)

I then made peace w/ the english and the persians
but, one turn later, the they attacked the japanese, forcing me back into battle (as per the MPP) but before my turn comes around, is the Japanese turn. Well, damn, they decide they want no more of the MPP.

WTF is that? The same turn I am forced to join a war for the Japanese, they turn around and decide they no longer want the alliance! Argh. very annoying. now back at war with the other 2 civs. I desperately needed a break to help the war weariness, and to build up a navy to hunt down the remaining cities.