The late game is too American

[awesomedude]

Originally posted by Zannhart
>>But I think that in the eyes of the world, skyscrapers and such are seen as very American in the sense of architecture and is something that is very strongly asscociated with the US, and that was what I was really trying to get at with my post.<<

So something that is very strongly associated with the US and is put into this video game means this whole game was widely designed towards the US?

Since according to you so many people are 'missing the point' with your post it sounds as if you need to start rewording your posts, and not that we are just reading them all wrong. Or are we all just too dense to understand you?

>>I can't say I am very surprised, but you must be really sensitive if you would find my post toe "bashing America". <<

>>You are getting me all wrong. Did I claim the US not to be a civilized country?<<

>>I mean it's enough that the US is a civilization by itself (ok, don't make me define civilization). <<

Yeah...kind of sounded to me as if you were claiming the US was't a 'civilization', and if that's the case you were indeed 'bashing' the US. But please do explain the point of that phrase there, since we all don't understand you.

I said it "was enough that [in the game] the US is a civilization by itself", were [] is the point I was trying to make. The reason for me feeling this way about the US in Civ3, is simply because it hasn't been around very long, but of course it would be crazy of the developers not to put it in there. I'm sorry that you were able to make out something else of it... I didn't mean to 'bash' the US.

[ALPHA WOLF 64]

For the sake of argument, lets say that skyscrapers make people think of America. What kind of structure would say "metropolis" to an Asian or European?

On a similar thought, to me I had no attachment to the WTC, but every one of my foreign friends had fond thoughts of it as some gateway to america. Just shows how cultures can see the same thing differently.

[awesomedude]

Originally posted by Zannhart
>>But I think that in the eyes of the world, skyscrapers and such are seen as very American in the sense of architecture and is something that is very strongly asscociated with the US, and that was what I was really trying to get at with my post. <<

>>But as of right now, I still believe that skyscrapers are something that is very much associated with the US. Probably isn't in 20-30 years.<<

First you speak for the world "In the eyes of the world", then you speak for just yourself "I still believe", make up your mind who you're speaking for

I hope you have better things to do than to going through my messages letter by letter. I've been typing a whole lot in the past hour and I so dearly apologize for not being consistent. I don't really see how it changes anything though. Just because I write in the second paragraph that "I still believe...", doesn't mean I all of a sudden back off from my earlier claim that "in the eyes....".

[nationalist]

[SIZE=1] (Or at least that is what we like to say about our gutted industrial sectors... sigh)

Amen! Our industries are getting the shaft in almost every possible way. As the son of a steel worker I can observe our "transition into a 'post industrial society'" first hand, watching my dad get laid off because we buy steel made by 13 year old slave laborers in Thailand. Don't even get me started about the textile industry ( lead by Nike, the most despicable, oppurtunistic, exploitative, treasonous company in the world. Cost to make shoes in Indonesian prison camp manufacturing plant: $3. Market price for shoes: $110.) God bless Free trade! (You can probably guess where I get the name Nationalist from) anyway, end of rant. The game isn't overly Americanized. Just look at the many intelligent arguments throughout the thread.

[spicytimothy]

don't understand

Why's everyone targeting awesomedude? All he did was bring up a thought... even if u think it's wrong, there's really no need for all these word-examining...

Let me try to express my opinion politely:

From when I grew up, which is Hong Kong, all the buildings i've ever seen are tall skyskrappers, Seldom less than 10 floors. So i don't think tall buidings are American symbols... i mean, there aren't that many American cities that u picture with tall buildings... Miami is associated w/ the beaches, Los Angeles with Hollywood, Santa Monica and Bev Hills etc, San Fran with Golden Bridge... u know what i mean?? Rather, if u look elsewhere in the world, cities are mostly associated w/ biuldings... Tokyo with the Tokyo Tower, Hong Kong with the Central view from Victoria Habor, Shanghai with the Pudong Commerical sector... etc etc.

In other words, there's a lot of American tech at the end of the game, yes, but they did create them and they ARE the most prominent of recent years AND they are easily implemented in the gameplay. I honestly can't think of any other recent inventions that are worthy enough of being featured AND can be implemented into the game AND has not been featured in another way... Maybe the One Country Two System idea by Deng XiaoPing??

spicytimothy

[The Viceroy]

Ive finally manage to read through all these posts .. boy, there are some sensitive soals here

IMO there are some things which are questionable, but lets not forget the game was designed and coded by Americans .... and im pretty damn certain, if it had been designed and coded by any other nation, the results would be pretty much the same biased outlook, if not even more towards there own history and culture in some countries cases .. Im sure we can think of a few

You have to accept, we all see the world through the model of our own perspections, which are completely shaped by our culture. and thank God we are all different, the idea that were all going to be American in 30 years or so is horrendous .. as the British discovered, try to make India British, and you end up becoming Indian yourself..

Long live our differences .. cos without them, there really is no Civilization game ..

As soon as the scenario editor is fixed, and we can actually edit the game without it crashing .. we can all get to work on Civ 3 the British Patch, Civ 3 the French patch etc .. and play the game as we feel it should be played.

[Alex]

I really can't stand all this argument... The game was made by americans working for an american company, and one of its most prominent markets is the USA. So what's the big deal? Of course they have to include USA as a civilization... Imagine thousands of players on the USA opening their Civ3 boxes and realizing that they couldn't play as the americans... It's a common sense thing to include USA as a civ, even though we all know USA is not a civilization by itself...

[awesomedude]

Ok, this has been a pretty pointless discussion, and I really shouldn't prolong it by posting yet another time, yet still I can't resist .

It seems that I need to repeat that my initial post was only my personal thought/opinion/preference, and not an argument, as stated in the first sentence of it ("As far as I'm concerned...).

Originally posted by Alexnm
The game was made by americans working for an american company, and one of its most prominent markets is the USA. So what's the big deal? Of course they have to include USA as a civilization...

I'm not sure as to what I wrote that made you write this reply. I did write however, that it would be 'crazy of the developers not to put it in there', which would be pretty much the same point that you're making above.

[Inverse Icarus]

dont start that debate again. let me end it here.

from http://www.dictionary.com/search?q=civilization

civ·i·li·za·tion Pronunciation Key (sv-l-zshn)
n.
An advanced state of intellectual, cultural, and material development in human society, marked by progress in the arts and sciences, the extensive use of record-keeping, including writing, and the appearance of complex political and social institutions.
The type of culture and society developed by a particular nation or region or in a particular epoch: Mayan civilization; the civilization of ancient Rome.
The act or process of civilizing or reaching a civilized state.
Cultural or intellectual refinement; good taste.
Modern society with its conveniences: returned to civilization after camping in the mountains.

[Inverse Icarus]

i believe we fit into 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5 is just a silly one

if you honestly dont think that American culture is different from Englands, i dare you to come here acting all british

[reefer addict]

if you wanna be realistic, the stealth unit should be an american UU do to the fact no one else seems to have them. i know many people dont like america being included in this game but when i see aztec modern armor and bombers ripping up my territory , i quickly get over the fact there where no americans in the beginning. maybe we need to create a mod that doesnt let america in untill the 1700's but then allows them to fly by everyone in science,ecomomy and be the only civ with f-15,aegis ,sdi and stealth. other then a change like that , i think the americans belong in the game

[Inverse Icarus]

Originally posted by reefer addict
if you wanna be realistic, the stealth unit should be an american UU do to the fact no one else seems to have them. i know many people dont like america being included in this game but when i see aztec modern armor and bombers ripping up my territory , i quickly get over the fact there where no americans in the beginning. maybe we need to create a mod that doesnt let america in untill the 1700's but then allows them to fly by everyone in science,ecomomy and be the only civ with f-15,aegis ,sdi and stealth. other then a change like that , i think the americans belong in the game

they'd yell even more about the americans getting special abilities.

and besides, thats nto civ

[Alex]

awesomedude: I did not say that you start this argument. Problem is, other posters started to defend America as a civ, and I realize that you did not say it was not. (Man, this is becoming confuse...).

One thing is for sure: I agree with you about the late game "americanization".

Uber: America clearly fit into 1, 2, 3 and 4. No doubts about that. I just think that it should appear on the Industrial times, that's all...

[awesomedude]

Originally posted by UberKruX
dont start that debate again. let me end it here.

Your post is utterly pointless and off topic. Did you read anything I wrote? Can't let you end the discussion like that...

Originally posted by Alexnm
Awesomedude: I did not say that you start this argument. Problem is, other posters started to defend America as a civ, and I realize that you did not say it was not. (Man, this is becoming confuse...).

One thing is for sure: I agree with you about the late game "americanization".

Uber: America clearly fit into 1, 2, 3 and 4. No doubts about that. I just think that it should appear on the Industrial times, that's all...

Yes, this is becoming very confused, but let's leave it at that. Thanks for being civil about it anyway.

[Tenchusatsu]

Reading the original post, I have to wonder why people think stealth technology is so "American"? Just because America got there first?

I've seen reports of other countries now trying to develop their own stealth technology, such as France. China is no doubt hard at work on a stealth aircraft of their own. Ironically enough, all these developments are motivating America to pioneer anti-stealth technologies, possibly for the day when America no longer has the monopoly on stealth.

The same question applies to other technologies that seem so "American." Integrated defense is one of them. So what if America is the only one pioneering it against world opinion? Just because other countries can't or won't develop it, does it mean that it should not be considered a legitimate advance in technology?

Let's face it, America really is the pioneer of many, if not all, modern technologies. The only advance America is not pioneering in is environmentalism, and even in this area, the world is expecting America to carry a bigger burden of the responsibility, simply because America's industrial strength is that much bigger than anyone else's.

By the way, it's curious to see Ecology placed as a requirement for Synthetic Fibers and Stealth. I'm pretty sure America developed stealth aircraft and synthetic fibers without the help of those green hippies.