The late game is too American

[Sandman]

Yes, America is the world's most powerful country, and yes it has mighty war machine, but even so, the late game has been Americanized way too much.

Firstly, why are there two stealth air units? Only one would be necessary, since they are both bombers. And I really don't think that 'stealth' deserves to be a seperate tech.

The B-2 'Spirit', the big stealth plane, has an insanely high cost at over a billion dollars per plane. It can't fly supersonic, has a relatively small payload due to it's low profile, and needs a climate-controlled hangar. And of course it can only be used at night. No more are planned. It's a modern equivalent of the Zeppelin, frightening, silent, and can do a bit of damage, but extravagant and ultimately useless.

That this paper tiger was put in over a typical jet bomber is serious oversight IMO.

The stealth 'fighter' is has a much more reasonable price tag, and a better record, but an advancement in radar could make it obselete overnight. Still, it's not too bad a choice.

Now we have the AEGIS cruiser. It's a missile firing cruiser with some sort of computer system which gives it a fighting edge. However, its anti-aircraft abilities are not really modelled in civ3, so it was given an anti-sub role instead.

This annoys me, as the phalanx and the trireme were presumably ditched for being too Mediterranean. AEGIS was kept though - why? Why not 'advanced cruiser' or something like that?

The final named tech in civ1 and civ2 was fusion power. In civ3 it is 'Integrated defence'. I think that this is inexcusable.

Fusion power: A dream of safe, clean energy harnessed in the same way the sun gets it's energy. Will we ever do it? No-one knows. It's an ideal stepping stone for future techs.

Integrated defence: A rubbishly named final tech (was all previous defence 'unintegrated'?). It's depressing that many of the final techs (stealth, smart weapons and integrated defence) are military-only techs.

I really don't think that technological development should end with the controversial 'son of Star Wars' but I suppose Firaxis thinks differently.

Then there are the wonders, but i'll do them in separate post later some time, if this thread takes off.

[Sabre2th]

I'm confused as to what this has to do with America. Out of all of those complaints, the only one that really has to do with the U.S. is the AEGIS cruiser, and that could have been done for any number of other reasons.

[Sandman]

Only America has any stealth units, and only America plans an Strategic Missile Defence.

You're right though; I certainly didn't make myself very clear.

[Dis]

well it's a good post anyways

I can't disagree with it.

But it doesn't bother me. Of course I'm american so that may be why . There are many other things in the game that bother me more.

but I agree Fusion power should be the be all/end all of techs.

Integrated defense is pretty cheesy. I agree completely.

[ixnay]

I didn't really notice it. Then again, I have yet to play very far into the modern age without the game ending...

[awesomedude]

As far as I'm concerned, the above post has only scratched the surface of the civ-americanization. I mean it's enough that the US is a civilization by itself (ok, don't make me define civilization). I mean the architecture for example...all the sky scrapers and downtown areas that they've put into the modern era, you won't find in many cities outside the US. This has gotten much better since civ2 anyway...those 'all-out-skyscraper' modern era cities for every civ really annoyed me.

[Alex]

Originally posted by ixnay37
I didn't really notice it. Then again, I have yet to play very far into the modern age without the game ending...

Me too.

[nationalist]

Originally posted by awesomedude
As far as I'm concerned, the above post has only scratched the surface of the civ-americanization. I mean it's enough that the US is a civilization by itself (ok, don't make me define civilization). I mean the architecture for example...all the sky scrapers and downtown areas that they've put into the modern era, you won't find in many cities outside the US. This has gotten much better since civ2 anyway...those 'all-out-skyscraper' modern era cities for every civ really annoyed me.

What about Malaysia, Singapore. Toronto, etc. Many cities around the world have skyscrapers. Aren't the tallest skyscrapers in the world in Kuala Lampor?

[asleepathewheel]

I think the early stages of the game are too babylonian and egyptian. Pyramids? Hanging Gardens? Baah. What about everyone else in the world at the time? Perhaps this belongs in the Civilizations forum.


Do you want the game to end at 1950? or the equivalent tech time?

If you want the American influence out, what do you want in? BTW, I think that a lot of the modern stuff could also be viewed as being of Soviet design.

And, I guess you are forgetting those Future Techs! Hahaha, right. Who has actually researched one of those? I agree that there could be a better way to end the tech tree than with NMD or whatever its called this republican cycle.

[Thrawn05]

This is why I don't goto Civ3 - Civilizations forum. I'm tired of debates like this.

[Felch]

Originally posted by awesomedude
As far as I'm concerned, the above post has only scratched the surface of the civ-americanization. I mean it's enough that the US is a civilization by itself (ok, don't make me define civilization). I mean the architecture for example...all the sky scrapers and downtown areas that they've put into the modern era, you won't find in many cities outside the US. This has gotten much better since civ2 anyway...those 'all-out-skyscraper' modern era cities for every civ really annoyed me.

Furthermore, most Americans don't live in towns with skyscrapers. I never even saw one up close until I was 17, and visited Manhattan.

[Kilroy_Alpha]

Originally posted by nationalist


What about Malaysia, Singapore. Toronto, etc. Many cities around the world have skyscrapers. Aren't the tallest skyscrapers in the world in Kuala Lampor?

Yes, the Petronas Towers. awesomedude doesn't know what the **** he's talking about. It's almost like he's trolling, only he's not doing a good job at all.

[Zannhart]

Originally posted by awesomedude
As far as I'm concerned, the above post has only scratched the surface of the civ-americanization. I mean it's enough that the US is a civilization by itself (ok, don't make me define civilization). I mean the architecture for example...all the sky scrapers and downtown areas that they've put into the modern era, you won't find in many cities outside the US. This has gotten much better since civ2 anyway...those 'all-out-skyscraper' modern era cities for every civ really annoyed me.

OK well first of all like someone else already stated....there are many other countries in the world that have skyscrapers, heck, even some countries in Africa have skyscrapers. And yes, the tallest building in the world isn't even in America.

And don't worry, I won't ask ya to define civilization, I already know it But I'll get it from Websters just to make ya happy:

>>The act or process of civilizing or reaching a civilized state.<<

I think America is quite 'civilized', at least when compared to other countries.

>>Modern society with its conveniences: returned to civilization after camping in the mountains.<<

Everyone is always bashing America for loving their 'modern conveniences' so yes, I think this fits America too

Why is it no matter what message board I go to these days there is always some post bashing America? I mean I swear, I never see posts bashing England or the Ukraine, why is America always a good target? Jealousy?

[Dis]

and america will never have the tallest skyscrapers.

I doubt they will build anything over 60 stories in the WTC site. Eventually the sears tower will be levelled, and pretty much everything else is fairly small compared to asian buildings.

so who cares about sky scrapers.

I never liked stealth aircraft in civ3 or civ2. But at least civ3 had jet aircraft which civ2 was lacking.

[Inverse Icarus]

the lategame is too american? it's because we're the most influential force at that time.

ancient civs? i'm sure not all of them had "pikemen" (eg zulu), or "tanks" or "calvary".

every age (or potion of an age) is based on the overwhelming
force behind that age.

it's like debating "the early part of this game is too [INSERT ANCIENT CIV]".

Americans never ran around with warriors, but the people at the time (zulu etc) did, so there are warriors in the game.

Because the American airforce is more advanced than a lot of the world's, the units are based on them.

simple fact.

and asfor SDI Defence, they were just looking for a way to combat the ICBM infinate range. I'm sorry if their concept offends you.