Time for peace!

[Jaybe]

MPP violations

Originally posted by Carver
... As long as you attack the Indians on your turf the Romans don't have to declare war. But if you attack them in neutral terf or their terf, any MPPs they have will kick in.

My experience is that you don't violate MPPs unless you attack/bombard on their turf. Attacking on your own turf or in neutral territory is okay.
JB

[kailhun]

In my current game. the I was beating the stuffing out of the English but they refused to give me anything in the peace negotiation. No cities, no gold. Even when they were down to six (crappy) cities with just spearmen and one rifleman in London (me cavalry). I had bought four cities and built cavalry there. I was quite happily taking their cities easily. But no 'surrender'.
Something about backbone. What's the use of having a backbone if the enemy is about to rip it out? It's not as if the war-weariness was noticeable or that it was a drag on my economy. Stupid brits.

Robert

[Pyrodrew]

Re: Destruction

Originally posted by Jaybe

My experience is that you don't violate MPPs unless you attack/bombard on their turf. Attacking on your own turf or in neutral territory is okay.
JB

That's true, but be careful - attacking/bombarding neutral turf near their cities may hurt your political standings. I had Ghandi on 'Polite' with me. He was 1 of my few competitors, so I decided to destroy some neutral roads that linked some of his cities together (thus destroying the luxury/strategy resources for those outside cities). My next recent visit to him he was 'Furious' & stayed that way the rest of the game.

Amazing the AI can be smart enough to know something like that, but has NO idea how to use artillery or terrain to it's advantage.

And sadly the AI Civs rarely (if ever) try to stop me from making my spaceship. I usually turn SpaceRace off now - it's a win that's far too easy.

[Jaybe]

Re: Re: Destruction

Originally posted by Pyrodrew
That's true, but be careful - attacking/bombarding neutral turf near their cities may hurt your political standings. I had Ghandi on 'Polite' with me. He was 1 of my few competitors, so I decided to destroy some neutral roads that linked some of his cities together (thus destroying the luxury/strategy resources for those outside cities). My next recent visit to him he was 'Furious' & stayed that way the rest of the game.

...

Hummer! My 'studies' re MPP were before version 1.17f arrived!

Having played less than one game since 1.17, I may know less than I thought. One of the things I really enjoy about a game of Civ is to be constantly learning and encountering new aspects of the game (or 'the history')!

[Shadowlord]

I personally love the fact that the AIs start looking for mutual protection pacts around the same time IG as the alliances system and concern over balance of power began IRL.

[GarethDaragon]

i finished a game last night where i was nearing the end of the space race, but i lacked the necessary uranium. so my choices were attack japan and its five pitiful cities, or attack china and its 15 city empire. i decided to go for china since the uranium was one city away from my front... i had quite the technological advantage, me with panzers... them with infantry and artillery (which rocks because i can gain artillery as i conquer instead of producing it)...

anyhow, so i started the war with the specific goal of conquering no more than three cities and then i would sue for peace possibly getting another city or two out of the deal. so i took three cities, but china wouldn't talk to me. at this point japan jumped on the bandwagon and declared war on china. i took three more cities and was outside the capital of china with 6 panzers and 9 artillery. china still wouldn't talk. the only other world power FRANCE declared war on china at this point. so i took the capital. sued for peace (nope, won't talk)... to make an already long story short, up until the time that i took the last chineese city (a pitiful moved capital with only a pop of 3), no matter how hard i tried i couldn't get china to talk to me. not a single french or japaneese military unit ever got into chineese territory since they were permanently one or two turns behind my push.

i really wanted to spare china, but they just wouldn't let me. i guess i see the point of not surrendering to a hated foe, but at some point shouldn't the chineese leaders have said... hey, maybe we better make peace before the whole sky falls on top of our silly heads? actually it was better that way anyway since once china was gone, i didn't have to worry about culture flipping...

my one question is this: should a city culture flip when a) you are at war with the city it flips to AND b) there is no border adjacent to the cities in question between the two countries? the only offense china had was when two small cities flipped three turns after i captured them, eventhough they were within my cultural borders completely... found that a little strange.

[Drug zBla]

listen GarethDaragon, i'm new to the game, so i didn't get the chance to "get to know" the AI of it yet. But more than often, surrender was not an option for extincting (i don't know the word: those who are becoming extinct) nations.

History thought us that pride is often the greatest murderer of them all.

[GarethDaragon]

i guess that's why i'm not the ruler of the "real" world... my sense of self-preservation is a little too high.

[Kinnie]

I have played a few games where a civ would not talk pease. when that happens you just have to wipe them out. And yes the other civs at times will join in and help you wipe them out. The trouble comes when he has a city on a small island somewhere and that can be hard to find. All this just makes the game fun because each games is a little different.

[Shadowlord]

I haven't really had any trouble getting peace after taking several enemy cities. All I would have to do is stop attacking their cities for a while, and if I held my cities that I'd taken from them, eventually they'd calm down a bit, and I'd be able to talk them into peace by saying "We seem to have overextended ourselves..."

In my experience, "Our troops still approach your cities!" never worked, it always just made them mad. Even if you control the entire world, except for the one city they hold, you have to say "We seem to have overextended ourselves" or they laugh in your face publicly.

Of course, I suspect the leaders who refuse to surrender have grown tired of ruling a wimpy nation, and are privately arranging for a plastic surgeon to change how they look so you won't have them executed after you inevitably conquer their civilization... They're showing far-reaching and realistic intelligence here, by seeing ahead to the inevitable fall of their empire, and preparing for it by disguising themselves and sneaking into your society. Maybe they'll have you assassinated after becoming vice president. Or the Minister of State Security if you're a communism. :P

We must be careful, if the AI keeps showing advanced thinking like this, they just might try nuking our palace while we're in it. We'd better start living in underground bunkers in our most backwards "cities" just in case.

Oh wait, they already do this! When I nuked and stormed the Egyptians' capital, they responded by nuking London, York, and Paris, all of which I had a palace, forbidden palace, or a private resort for Comrade Secretary of the Communist Party (I.E. Guy who tells everyone else how to think. That is, me .).

Of course, I did retaliate back. I've nuked around 10 of their cities total, plus I've nuked their new capital a total of 3 times (*evil grin*). I'm sure I must have killed Cleopatra in one of those attacks. I'm just lucky I was in, uh, an undisclosed location*, when their nukes struck York, London, and Paris.

* "An undisclosed location" means I was hiding on another planet because my government found a Stargate in the rubble of the Egyptian capital...

[ALPHA WOLF 64]

I had a great game that allowd me to watch the AI in action. I was in the middle and by far the top dog (Regent level-12 total civs) France and China were to the east, every one else but russia (its own 21 city continent) to the west. France attacked China around 1500bc, China had a MPP with India, before long every nation but me and russia were at war with the french. The war was fought almost entirely within my borders but I was ok with that in because France was #2 and closing. Over the next 3400+ years, at no time was France ever totally at peace. When france was pushing forward, some of the smaller countries would make peace. But any time the french were getting pushed back, almost every country would join against the french, even the russians jumped in a few times. It was amazing to watch the realistic (IMO) alliances that sprang up based on the french strength. At one point, the french defeated a stack of 40+ war elephants with minimal losses. Within 2 turns, the Indians and Germans had made peace treaties but when the french attacked an Iroquis city, back in came the aztecs and before long the Indians and Germans were back in again.

My point is that the until it was down to the final 3 (me, french and russia), poor france was at war because of the multiple MPPs. There should be a peace option that overrules any MPPs, maybe give that as an option "peace overrides MPP with Germans". That way you can see with MPPs there value more than others. Maybe they'll accpet an override of the german MPP but not the Indian MPP, etc.

[ALPHA WOLF 64]

I wonder if the AI tracks its war somehow. Such as the AI has lost 4 cities and 34 units and has destroyed 2 cities and 18 units. Or does it only look at existing forces, AI has 6 cities/50 units vs my 20 cities/200 units.

And I hate that the AI wont talk for at least 5 turns even tho it attacked me.

[Arrian]

I agree about the "peace overides MPP" thing. Frankly, if a MPP partner makes peace, that should break the MPP. There should be a diplo hit because of it, and thus it should be a bit more difficult to make peace with a civ that has a MPP, but once you sign the peace deal, they are out.

-Arrian