Time for peace!

[Jim0322]

I think I am gaining a better understanding of the game but am still a novice. In any case, in my current game I am playing the Americans and an immediate neighbor is the Romans, I think it is 1920 or so. The Romans and the Indians are at war with me and I have taken/destroyed 3 Roman cities, the biggest had a population of 18 but the pesky Romans still will not agree to peace unless I say I over-extended myself and I am not ready to do that. My people are getting horribly war-weary but my tanks will soon be ready to roll over another Roman city and their cavalry/rifleman.

When will they agree to peace on my terms???? I want peace and some small incentive and do not want peace and have to pay them for it. They are losing! Why don't they sue for peace?


Jim

[Arrian]

You've gotta hurt them pretty badly to force a favorable peace treaty. Three cities probably isn't enough. Take a few more. Did you raze any cities? That pisses them off, and I think may make them less likely to talk peace for a while.

-Arrian

[Capt Dizle]

Bad game design.

[asleepathewheel]

sometimes i have found that the AI won't give up for free or give you tribute until you have destroyed most of the offensive units. since you are using tanks, you should also have spies, which you can use to see how many offensive units they have left, and more expensively, where they are located. The Ai doesnt like to give up as long as there is a chance for a counterstrike.


jimmytrick:

now that you have unistalled Civ3, is your goal to clog the forums with redundant drivel about a game you don't even play?

[Cookie Monster]

[SIZE=1]
jimmytrick:

now that you have unistalled Civ3, is your goal to clog the forums with redundant drivel about a game you don't even play?

Ouch that hurt!

[Raion]

The decision is up to you, but it may make other Civilizations not like you in the end.

Whole civilizations have never given up, only to be defeated in the end, and other civilizations wary of what that leader (you) will do next.

Wanderers from the demised civilization probably all wonder why their leader (like the Romans) could not see the light of day.

Let them live or destroy them more, that is the question.

You are leader, and its up to you.

By the way, having fun?



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- By playing Civ III you wanted to be a leader, and emperor, an important person in the scheme of things yet to come.


The game is watching you, and the leaders are stubborn, and will not yield.

[Arrian]

Originally posted by jimmytrick
Bad game design.

In your not-so-humble opinion.

Failure to capitulate after the loss of three cities is not necessarily bad game design. As a matter of fact, having the AI go all weak in the knees because you took a city is bad game design, in my opinion. That makes the AI such a pushover.

Jim,

Concentrate on one foe, hurt them really badly (keep taking and/or razing cities until they will make peace at terms you're ok with) and then turn on the other. Aim to take away luxuries from them. That hurts them just as much as the loss of cities. As a matter of fact, now that I think of it, pillaging their luxuries and resources will also help with getting them to talk peace.

I aim to take cities that control luxuries. More luxuries will delay the effects of war weariness for your civ, while causing all sorts of problems for the enemy. Even if you take over lux resources you already have, you will cut trade agreements the AI had - agreements you may be able to make instead, thus gaining either money or more resources yourself.

-Arrian

[Autolicus]

The AI's refusal to sue for peace is not a flaw in the game design. As in life, one can't start a war and easily stop it whenever one wants. If that were the case, you could start a war with a neighbor anytime you wanted, grab a couple of cities -- or raze them and enslave the workers -- and then ask for peace. That ploy actually does work sometimes, but not repeatedly. Think about it; it makes sense. In real life, if a weaker neighbor realized you were asking for peace merely because things were inconvenient, but planned to resume the massacre at some point in the future, it might well decide to go down fighting.

[dawidge]

I've found that they will sometimes not give up at all (the unfortunate side-effects of multi-way MPPs dragging you back into a war before 20 turns of peace).

The AI clearly understands that it is doing you more harm by wrecking your economy with unhappiness than it could through military force. I just wish that the "war weariness" took into account the relative powers of your enemies.

If I've been at war with the Japanese for 50 turns and have reduced them to two cities (compared to my 50+) on some sandspit on the other side of the world, my people shouldn't care that the Japanese refuse to come to the bargaining table.

I should be able to tell theJapaese ambassador exactly what kind of subspecies of gnat I consider him to be and turn off all political relations with him without worrying about war weariness.

dawidge

[Jim0322]

The Romans and I signed a peace treaty, peace-peace, no concessions on either side although I had to tell them I was over-extended in order to get it. The very next turn I attacked an Indian unit (we were still at war) and the Romans declared war on me because of a mutual protection pact.

Should that pact have been broken when the Romans made peace while the Indians were still at war with me? Is it required to make peace with both in order to make it last more than 1 turn?


One other question. The Indians have a sizable fleet bombarding my coasts but their troop landings have been quickly mopped up. What is the best way way to deal with an opposing navy when they are very clearly numerically superior? I have lost 2 battleships to ironclads. I thought a battleship would be nearly invincile against ironclads but 2-3 of them easily destroy a battleship.

Jim

[Arrian]

Jim,

If you have railroads, the best way to deal with numerically superior but technologically inferior AI ships is to use artillery to weaken them and then finish them off with Destroyers or Battleships. Railroads let you zap your artillery around wherever you need it, and they have a range of 2, so you can most often reach those ironclads.

Aren't Mutual Protection Pacts a pain in the ass? Can you wipe Rome out? That may be what you have to do.

-Arrian

[Carver]

Originally posted by Jim0322
The very next turn I attacked an Indian unit (we were still at war) and the Romans declared war on me because of a mutual protection pact.

Should that pact have been broken when the Romans made peace while the Indians were still at war with me?

Jim

The MPP between the Romans and Indians would still be in full force despite the peace treaty. A military alliance between the two would be broken when one of them makes peace, however. As long as you attack the Indians on your turf the Romans don't have to declare war. But if you attack them in neutral terf or their terf, any MPPs they have will kick in.

[Dr Strangelove]

Originally posted by dawidge
I've found that they will sometimes not give up at all (the unfortunate side-effects of multi-way MPPs dragging you back into a war before 20 turns of peace).

The AI clearly understands that it is doing you more harm by wrecking your economy with unhappiness than it could through military force. I just wish that the "war weariness" took into account the relative powers of your enemies.

If I've been at war with the Japanese for 50 turns and have reduced them to two cities (compared to my 50+) on some sandspit on the other side of the world, my people shouldn't care that the Japanese refuse to come to the bargaining table.

I should be able to tell theJapaese ambassador exactly what kind of subspecies of gnat I consider him to be and turn off all political relations with him without worrying about war weariness.

dawidge

That's nothing! I've completely destroyed the Japanese and I mean every unit and city, but they still persist! Can anyone say "BUG"?

[Ephack]

There is often a solution: Say in the beginning that you have over extended yourself, and go to the bargaining table. Ask for a peace treaty, and then ask for cities, tech, gold...
The last time, I had conquered all german cities but 3. But Bismarck didn't want to make peace. I was a so-called "terrorist". But once on the bargaining table, he aggreed to give me all his cities (except the capital of course), his gold, and his new techs!

[Inverse Icarus]

or you could just pull a Vietnam / Korea / Afghanistan and go there and fight without ever declaring war officially