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A clarification about Civ3 and discontent

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  • #16
    I think of Civ3 as a Civ sequel (with the aforementioned problems of no history or plot in Civ games, since the motto is "rewrite history"). It's IMO a sequel because whole new concepts were brought without being only candy : culture and resources are at the core of the game, as much as diplomacy and city management. It's a sequel also because the AI changed deeply : it's not the dumb one we knew with Civ2, CTP1 or SMAC, but is really challenging for most casual players (I still don't dare to play higher than monarch). SMAC was not a sequel, it was a whole new game with empire-building principles ; considering SMAC a mere sequel would be like considering HalfLife a sequel of Doom.

    I was a true fan (ok, not diehard) of Civ2, I miss the lack of scenarios in Civ3, but Civ3 is a game I love. I couldn't play Cv2 anymore because it would seem me so poor -no resources and all.

    About discontentment : I suppose a sequel always disturbs some fans of the original, who would like to play the original again, while a remake would make some others fans whine because of the lack of innovations. Recieving fan's whining is a must in the game industry, every great game with great sequels reieve much negative feedback from those who wanted the original better, but in their own way. Some examples : go on Chrono Trigger/Chrono Cross, or Diablo1 / Diablo2 forums, and you'll see how solid games get bashed by psychorigid people.
    But I think Civ3 recieves many complains because some of its flaws are unanimously admitted -lack of scenarios, lack of MP, still incomplete rules editor... When they'll be fixed, much whining will abate, but not all : there will always be people who think things must be on their way, or otherwise the game is sh*t.

    (Btw, I don't like the idea of a "return from Alpha Century, if Civ3, or Civ4 had to be released like this, with an advanced technology from the beginning on planet earth, I would have found it pretty lame. Since Civ1, I enjoy eginning at the dawn of civilisation and arriving at today. That's why I was less involved in the sci-fi SMAC or the late CTP1)
    "I have been reading up on the universe and have come to the conclusion that the universe is a good thing." -- Dissident
    "I never had the need to have a boner." -- Dissident
    "I have never cut off my penis when I was upset over a girl." -- Dis

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    • #17
      Tarquelne:

      'Because Civ3 has no MP, and looks like MP might have real problems if implemented, or for other reasons? I think MP fans have good reason to be disappointed in the lack of MP/MP support'

      Some of them are disappointed for this reason, but many of them have other problems with the game... it's quite late so I won't go into them now, suffice to say, lack of MP is not the main problem even with former MP players (because they expect MP to arrive in the future).

      'The critics who agree with him, yes.'

      A lot of critics do agree with at least of few of the points he makes, admittedly not all of the critics do. But most people have at least some problems with the game (although I guess that is to be expected).

      'What jt seems unable to understand, but I think you will, is that the effective quality (good or bad) of the changes depends on what you want out of the game. I don't care much about MP, so I'm happy to see MP suffer to make SP better. You want MP, so you don't like many of the changes, and I think that's perfectly reasonable.'

      True... but there are many changes that COULD have been made that would have made the game more suitable for MP, without harming the SP aspect... for example, putting in the tech caps was completely unnecessary IMO, and without them MP would do much better. Anyway I'm too tired to go into it all tonight. If someone responds I'll come up with something better tomorrow

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      • #18
        If someone responds I'll come up with something better tomorrow
        So?
        I watched you fall. I think I pushed.

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        • #19
          Return to earth could be a mod:scenario type thing. All the basics are already there just change the info given and the names of things.

          If it was made as that kind of a sequal though it wouldn't be civ, it would be SMAC2.
          Yours in gaming,
          ~Luc

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