Colourless units

[SpencerH]

I'm just wondering about peoples experiences with colourless units. For my part, I've found them an interesting addition. I've added a powerful colourless "mercenary" (based on the Swiss pikeman of the 14th-16th centuries) during the middle ages that the AI builds and uses pretty much as I do. I've also just added an assasin unit that is colourless and stealthy after espionage. I gave it a low attack/defense value with the idea that they could infiltrate other civs and destroy improvements and capture workers etc. I havent seen the AI build them yet, but then they're stealthy! Strangely, my units have been quickly hunted down and killed by the AI. I'm not sure how or why but I suspect that the AI civ's can "see" stealth units, or the stealth isnt working.

[Ethelred]

The only non-visible units are subs. Colorless units are units with no known NATIONALITY. They free for all to kill just like barbarians and the AI will go out of its way to kill them if they can.

They used to attack privateers so rabidly they would kill off their weaker ships trying to sink them. Now they leave the privateers alone till they get ironclads. At that point they start going after them. They also stopped trying to attack privateers that were stacked with battleships like they used to.

So what you have done is create an easy mark for them to upgrade their troops with. I am sure they would thank if they could.

Heck they used to see privateers from across the world and way beyond their vision. That was exploited as a way to controll the AI ship movements.

[SpencerH]

Well it depends on what unit you're talking about. My "mercenary" is no easy mark. It's the strongest unit on the map until musketmen. The "assasin" is a test-mod based on a suggestion in another thread. Its stealthy based upon checking stealth in the unit editor ALONG WITH hidden nationality. They do seem to be "easy marks" but I'm not sure why.

[Ethelred]

OK. Which units are being hunted down then? The mercenaries would be because they should be treated the same as privateers. They aren't really mercenaries after all. They are a bunch of lawless bandits. With good A/D but still nothing but a bunch of ronin at best from the AI's point of view. Trouble makers best done away with.

The Assasins are something else of course. That check mark is for planes. Most likely your assasins are very resistant to interception by jets. So if you haven't seen the AI dropping napalm on your assassins then I would have to say they are working as expected.

Perhaps you should be using your assassins to put sugar in the gas tanks of aircraft.

[SpencerH]

As you've said, anything "colourless" is a target for the AI, but they are targets that have a lot of interesting uses including those for which you would use the privateer at sea.

As for the "stealth" checkmark for planes only, is that opinion or fact? After all hidden nationality is only for privateer .

I think you may be right though, that it's stealth from interception. The funny thing is I've never built stealth fighters or bombers. My games never last that long.

[Ethelred]

As for the "stealth" checkmark for planes only, is that opinion or fact?

Educated guess. I haven't programmed anything since I had an Apple ][ but if I was programming it would be a bit like this.

Civ launches bomber attack at tile 55,55

Check to to see if tile has fighter cover

IF fighter cover THEN

Check to see if attacker has stealth flag set

IF flag is set THEN roll virtual 20 sided die

IF 1 THEN run attacker killed animation

IF >1 THEN run successfull bomb run animation

I don't think your assassin qualifys for the any of that. Its not making a bomb run. Not even if its a wild eyed anarchist with a spherical bomb in its hand like the King used in Battle Chess on the Knight.

[SpencerH]

I think your guess makes sense, especially since stealth is only required while attacking. It would explain why my "assasins" dont work as expected. For my purposes, I was thinking of stealth while the unit was passing through enemy territory. "Stealth" in a CIV2 context might have worked as I expected.

[Tarquelne]

IIRC, "submarine" will make any unit invisible. So, unless you change another unit, only AEGIS Crusiers (and Destroyers?) will be able to see your new unit. "Waterspout! Assasin off the port bow, sir!"

[Willem]

Re: Colourless units

Originally posted by SpencerH
Strangely, my units have been quickly hunted down and killed by the AI. I'm not sure how or why but I suspect that the AI civ's can "see" stealth units, or the stealth isnt working.

Someone mentioned that the Stealth ability doesn't work for land units, only air. The Submarine ability does though. I tried it for a short time, but I didn't like the idea of not being able to see those units that were whacking me. Again though, I got the distinct impression that the AI could see them a little better than they were supposed to.

[SpencerH]

Thanks.

That explains the problem. I'll amend the bic file and make a new batch to see what happens.

You should become aware of them when they attack. Then you will have to hunt em down "just like for real" .

[Willem]

Originally posted by SpencerH

You should become aware of them when they attack. Then you will have to hunt em down "just like for real" .

That's what I was afraid of. I did find a compromise though, I gave my units 1 move, all terrain as roads. So they have this nasty habit of jumping out of nowhere, much like being invisible. It works quite well, and the AI seems to like them. I have an Assassin unit that's a sheer terror for my Cavalry. Two or three of them can even take out an Infantry. They certainly keep me on my toes.

[SpencerH]

My "assasin" isnt quite that strong. Since it is a relatively modern unit I planned this first test with a special forces role of recon and sabotage.

[Tarquelne]

Originally posted by SpencerH
My "assasin" isnt quite that strong. Since it is a relatively modern unit I planned this first test with a special forces role of recon and sabotage.

I tried giving my special forces unit bombardment, in hopes that it would simulate sabotage. Someday soon I'll have a game last untill the modern era and try it out....

[SpencerH]

My assasins come with espionage which isnt quite modern. But if you want to try out your version you'll just have to make the sacrifice and let the game run on longer .

Bombardment. Now that is interesting. It gives the unit the ability to destroy buildings etc. I wonder if the AI would use it in the same way. If not, it would be a bit of a cheat. Its definitely worth testing though.

Why wait till the modern era ? Spies/special forces have been around for a long time. I delayed mine till after the first colourless unit so that there would be little overlap. I didnt want a whole host of these guys running around, just enough to make things interesting.

[Tarquelne]

[QUOTE] Originally posted by SpencerH
My assasins come with espionage which isnt quite modern. But if you want to try out your version you'll just have to make the sacrifice and let the game run on longer .

I respond: ;p

Bombardment. Now that is interesting. It gives the unit the ability to destroy buildings etc. I wonder if the AI would use it in the same way. If not, it would be a bit of a cheat. Its definitely worth testing though.

I'm _hopeing_ the AI will park 'em in a defensable spot and start wreaking improvements and destroy the occasional building. I also made them air-droppable, so that can appear right ontop of mountains, hills, etc. without needing to try to pass through enemy territory. (They're not invisible.)

Why wait till the modern era ? Spies/special forces have been around for a long time.

But did un-tracable, infrastructure wreaking units exist then? I thought my modern day bombarding/colorless unit a bit sci-fi. I know that past and present units could operate behind enemy lines and cause problems, but on the scale of that a Civ3 unit is capable of?