Do you recommend upgrading to 1.17f or sticking with 1.16f?

[nbarclay]

I've seen a lot of criticism of the 1.17f patch, and I'm interested in seeing whether dislike toward it is widespread or just vocal. So the question is, do you recommend that those of us who haven't gotten around to trying it yet switch to 1.17f or stick with 1.16f? (Please only answer if you've played both enough to feel like you have an informed opinion.)

Nathan

[Jawa Jocky]

I've played several games on all three. Here is my ranking.

1. 1.17f
2. No patch
3. 1.16f

I liked the game right out of the box even after realizing I wasted $10.00 getting the limited addition. I lost a few games trying to start on Monarchy before I realized I needed to start lower. I did great on my first game at Warlord and started moving up. At this point my only complaints were corruption, poor automation, and worst of all my diplomatic adivsor screen had no lines. I was very excited about the release of the 1st patch.

While some things were fixed with 1.16f my 3 main complaints were not fixed. The deal breaking however was finding out the AI was trading tech back and forth during my turn. mad: At this point I tried every suggestion in the help forum trying to atleast get my dipolmatic lines. When nothing worked I quit playing and spent my time posting here because it was funny than actually playing.

Then 1.17f is released. The automation was improved so you could actually play the modern era at a reasonable pace. While corruption, AI tech trading, and no diplomatic lines were still a problem. The lack of micromanging rekindled my interest in this game.

I'm hoping 1.18f, XP, and other patches will someday fix my other complaints. If they don't I have found several great ideas for mod here......... blah blah blah

Sorry for going on too long..... to answer your question YES get 1.17f after your next game.

[Skanky Burns]

I would say get 1.17f too.
The benefits of it outway its problems.

[E_T]

I haven't downloaded the 1.17f Patch because of the problems that I've read about. As for the trading during my turn with the 1.16f patch, I've been able to get around that and had a fairly enjoyable game. The thing that I had noticed was that the AI wouldn't always trade with there next door neibor(sp), so I was able to take advantage of that.

If it wousn't for the problems that the new patch had presented, then I would most likely be playing it.

E_T

[nbarclay]

Personally, I've rarely been more than mildly annoyed by AI trades during my turn. It just doesn't happen all that often that I've noticed (at least except with contact). Then again, I've played mostly Monarch and a little Emperor; I suspect it's probably worse on Deity.

Another thought that occurs to me is, is it really a step forward to get rid of cheating that costs a few trading opportunities only to have the AI take away a larger number of trading opportunities with its extreme trading aggressiveness? If the reports I've read are to be believed, it sounds almost like a case of out of the frying pan and into the fire.

Nathan

[number6]

I think the 1.17 Patch is worth trying. Like Jawa Jocky said the decreased micromanagement in the modern era makes the game much more enjoyable. It still has problems, but is better than the game out of the box. I did not like the first patch since it was mostly cosmetic (ie : fixing typos).

[PGM]

I still haven't upgraded from 1.16 to 1.17, even though I downloaded the patch. Posts about too many new gameplay problems scared me off. But since I haven't tried it, can't really say if it's true or not...
If this poll's final results are convincing, my opinion might change though.

[Saurus]

Still using 1.16.
I just can't take the A.I tech-trading in 1.17.
I just can't!!

-Saurus

[player1]

1.17 is worth it.
Tech race could be problem, but there are nice strategies to counter them.
At least until 1.18f

For those who haven't tested 1.17f I suggest you do.
If some people who tried 1.17 are frustrated that doesn't mean that you'll be also.

I wasn't.
I like it overal.

Apolytoon is good place for getting opinions, but loudest opinions aren't always the best or right opinions.

[lockstep]

Tech trading is a problem in 1.17. It is possible to get a slight tech lead, but the best overall strategy is maximizing tax output and buying techs from the AI.

OTOH, I won't do without stacked movement anymore. So yes, I recommend installing 1.17.

[Matrix@CF]

With every new patch Firaxis has dealt with bugs and errors. All the things they changed with the patch is an improvement, actually by definition. That includes pop-rushing. It wasn't ment to be, so now it isn't there anymore.

And even if you don't like certain changes initially, I think you will finally. With the patch the game is more refined, thus better.

[DrSpike]

Aside from the tech quibbles 1.17f is pretty decent. I can't see much changing if there is 1.18f. Of course the tech is pretty central to the game, and the problems aren't easily fixed. Early on (1.07) it was too easy to tech whore, then the AI started trading in your turn (1.16). Now (1.17) they are too aggressive. Somewhere in between 1.07 and 1.16 would suit best, but it's not clear how to implement it.

[watorrey]

I play monarch level. The 1.17 patch made me drop back to regent for 2 games while i figured out what the heck the ai changes were.

No, i don't like the aggressive ai trading. There is no way to know what a tech is really worth to the various civs unless they happen to have more than it is worth. The ai always knows the value, we mere humans do not.

No, i don't like the pop rushing penalty. It makes the ai self destruct and feels like a cheat in the late game. Plus, an early war in despotism can produce worthless ai cities for a very long time.

That said... I think we should always play the latest patch by the default rules until they get it right. I have made minor changes, but i always feel like i am cheating and restore the default rules.

Trouble is, will they tell us when they are done patching? As much as everyone seems to like the Firaxis folks, I can't help but be reminded of politicians when i read thier posts and chat transcripts.

[Saurus]

Originally posted by lockstep
Tech trading is a problem in 1.17. It is possible to get a slight tech lead, but the best overall strategy is maximizing tax output and buying techs from the AI.

OTOH, I won't do without stacked movement anymore. So yes, I recommend installing 1.17.

It is actually not so much about who is leading the tech-race.
Leading the tech race is stupid since the only gain by this is
that you continuousely have to pay more for your techs.

After all, you don´t really need banking if you have not had the time to build marketplaces yet.

Need a tech to start building a wonder? Wrong! Wrong!
You only need masonry so that you can start building your palace. Then when you think you have built it enough, just buy
the desired tech from any A.I (and I must point out that the
longer you wait, have the less you will to pay)
and then switch the palace to the wonder - done.
It is sad, sad, sad. I let all my 7 A.I competitors build
the sistine chappel for 30 turns. Then I buy
Theology from the Greeks (I think the prize was 40 gold) and finished the wonder in one turn.

This is the weakness of patch 1.17.
The A.I is ready to sell its soul for whatever tech allthough the
infrastructure to effectively use the tech is missing.
It is compleatly stupid that your civ can build nuclear missiles
while vital structures like banks, factories, universities and even harbors are still to be built due to the quick techprogress.
Yes...and this by year 1200-1300 and stuff...
I actually do understand that not every city has finished building factories by that time (nor should they be!)but occassional nuclear explosions while most of the cities are still struggling building middleage-structures...horrible imbalance caused
by 1.17.

-Saurus

[Master Marcus]

1.17f is a decent improvement and is recommended UNLESS you are a peaceful builder making a minimum number of "required" units to thrive - because the AI is more agressive ( against everybody ) and " declares war on us" much more often than pre-1.17 all things being equal. Now you need to build more military units to contend the pace.

The big 1.17 +: stack movement

The big - : fast tech trading causing lack of time to use some era units ( especially medieval ,in games where the AI almost gets Rifleman when comes the time to just think for organizing Knights/Longbowman/Cavalry/Cannons ). A few decades later when you are ready for a war with those units, just imagine the number you need to capture a 13+ AI city on a hill defended with some Riflemen. Have to wait for tanks if you want to use Democracy benefits for a while before switching to Commie.