What Civ Would You Have Included?

[Brutus66]

Vile?
Rapacious?
That's it, prepare for war!
Elizabeth is not amused (either of them).


BTW- you left out belligerent, jingoistic, evil, despicable, abominable, wicked, loathsome, and all the other usual adjectives usually flung by Celtic descendants.

[Ethelred]

Elizebeth needs to get laid. That might help her attitude. In the real world even it might have helped her attitude. Can't say that it would have helped anything else though. She was between a rock and a hard place for much of her life. Especially her early adulthood. Nasty dangerous and riddled with traps.

I left out the rest because good satire shouldn't be laid on that thick. Thats for the Celtic legends like Cuchu Lainen. Now that one is outrageously overdone.

Besides the English gave the Celts a language fit to tell the English all those things while making it look like a compliment. So it wasn't all bad. Just most of it.Much like the job England did on India except there they also built a really good rail system as well as giving them a language fit for international use. Or even in the next county.

Of course spelling English is an entirely different matter. That part is pure evil. I figure the English must have used the same sort of people to decide how to spell as they did when they muddled their way to Empire. Buffoons and nabobs and at least one gouty old wag with a case of obsessive compulsion.

[Brutus66]

Jeesh. I can feel the spittle hitting me in the face...

[AJ Corp. The FAIR]

Originally posted by Ethelred
Elizebeth needs to get laid. That might help her attitude. ...

I might be mistaken, but according to the movie 'Elisabeth' by an Indian director/regissor (?) (the one that created Bandit Queen, just can't remember his name right now),

Elisabeth GOT laid and ...

quite frequently IMHO ..!

AJ

[dunk]

My opinion is that there should be as many civs as possible to choose from. 16, 32... why not 100? All of them don't have to be in the same game at the same time, but the selection should be large. Why quibble about whether the Spanish or the Vikings or the Turks or the Tibetans belong in the game? Have all of them. I would love to see the Inca, the Polynesians, the Inuit, the Siamese, etc. And leaders and units and so on for each. A choice of leader portraits or animations would be cool too (for example... be Geo Washington, Abe Lincoln, or Harry Truman as the Americans).

Some people posting on topics like this seem to have some lofty thoughts about this game being some kind of measuring stick for a civilization's accomplishments. Civ A is in the game and civ B isn't, therefore civ B isn't as good.

There should obviously be more civ-specific attributes if the number of civs are to be increased. I've seen "Agricultural" and "Seafaring" discussed... both good ideas.

And who cares if the civs are balanced? If you want a challenge, pick a civ that doesn't match your play style or has (as far as you're concerned) crappy traits. If you want to use your favorite strategy, play as the civ that has the traits you like. You can also tailor the game even further by selecting your opponents.

I wanna see pages of choices for my civ when I open up my game.

[Sandman]

Celtic curiousities carefully commodified for tourist titilation does not make a still thriving civilization. My lowland hometown recently started an annual 'highland games' specifically for the tourists.

Neither does tiny special-interest groups. That would make Klingon a thriving culture.

Celtic is basically a brand-label, like Coca-cola.

If cornish is a living language, well, we must have different definitions of 'living'.

[N. Machiavelli]

Originally posted by Sandman

Neither does tiny special-interest groups. That would make Klingon a thriving culture.

I think Trekkies would definatly be an interesting 'culture' to add. Certainly humorous and unanimously ridiculous I'm sure we'd all agree. Picture 'Captain' William Shatner as it's leader with Great Leaders such as Leonard Nemoy, DeForest Kelley, Patrick Stewart, etc. Unique Unit? 'The Fanboy' a 1/1/1 unit with the ability to repel *any* culture not deemed 'geeky' enough. Hrmm, perhaps the Fanboy would be better suited as the UU for the "Firaxis" civ.....

[Sandman]

Other UU possibilities could be the away team, or the cannonfodder red-shirted crewman.

[Ethelred]

Originally posted by Brutus66
Jeesh. I can feel the spittle hitting me in the face...

I type with my mouth closed.


Are you one of those types that needs a lot of emoticons to tell when something is a joke.:

OK.


Is that enough or do you need more.



Then again maybe I'm the one that needs emoticons to tell if someone is making a joke.

[molly bloom]

Originally posted by Sandman
Celtic curiousities carefully commodified for tourist titilation does not make a still thriving civilization. My lowland hometown recently started an annual 'highland games' specifically for the tourists.

Neither does tiny special-interest groups. That would make Klingon a thriving culture.

Celtic is basically a brand-label, like Coca-cola.

If cornish is a living language, well, we must have different definitions of 'living'.

Are the Bretons a special interest group? How about Erse speaking Irish? Given the combinations of official harassment, expulsion, benign neglect and banning suffered by the Irish, Scots Gaelic speakers and the Welsh and Bretons, it's a wonder any kind of Celtic culture survived. Of course you can bleat about commodification- but then Edinburgh has its tourist draws like the Military Tattoo and Festival too, and the Lowlands Scots culture has never shied from applying a bit of tartan thistle window dressing when money was the object of the exercise. To compare the diversity of the Celtic world, music, decorative arts, literatures, sports, with a brand name is a move worthy of a lowlander- the people that sold Scotland to the English. A parcel of rogues in a nation, indeed.

As for Cornish being a living language- well, if Cornish women and men born in Cornwall, of Cornish descent speak Cornish- and if the Cornish abroad- for instance in South Australia, Tasmania, Victoria and America decide to revive Cornish as a spoken language without any kind of government incentive or coercion- then yes, I'd pretty much say Cornish was a living language again.

Much the same happened with Hebrew.

[Ethelred]

Originally posted by AJ Corp. The FAIR


I might be mistaken, but according to the movie 'Elisabeth' by an Indian director/regissor (?) (the one that created Bandit Queen, just can't remember his name right now),

Elisabeth GOT laid and ...

quite frequently IMHO ..!

AJ

Shekhar Kapur - but I had to look it up. I had heard of the movie and the Bandit Queen, Phoolan Devi, was recently assinated.

As for Liz, that was in the movie. Likely even in reality. However movies are rarely a good source of accurate history. This one is apparently is not one of the exceptions from what I saw on IMDB.

However I was talking about the Elizabeth in the game. The one that keeps telling me she will allow my tiny civ to survive if I give her my World Map and 30 gold. Often when she is on the other side of the world and without a ship to her name. There has to be something causing this bizzare behaviour. Surely it couldn't be entirely the doing of Firaxis. Perhaps no one at Firaxis has told her about birth control.



That one is the one I was talking about. The wicked witch of the North.

[Ned]

Just my two cents: Add the Arabs, leader Mohammed; the Jews, leader Moses; the Turks, leader Sulieman; the Moguls, leader Timor the Lame; the Franks, leader Charles the Great; the Goths, leader Alaric; the Vandals, leader Geirseric, the Vikings, leader Eric, the Eastern Roman Empire, leader Justinian, the Spanish, leader Philip, the Carthaginians, leader Hannibal, etc. No people who had a significant place in history should be omitted.

I suspect the current conflict in the Middle East may be a reason the Arabs were not included. To include them and not the Jews would be taking sides. To include the Jews would expose the folks at Firaxis to terroism.

Ned

[nato]

To include Arabs and not Jews would be taking sides, but to include Jews and not Arabs wouldn't be? Sounds like you got a side to me.

Anyway, I don't think including either one/both would be taking sides, and I don't think current events in the Mideast were the reason to not include Arabs.

I think the only reason was there weren't enough slots to fit in everyone, and there were only 16 slots because of the completely backwards, shallow, and stupid (in my opinion) choice to include funny-face graphics instead of lots of civs.

[Dinner]

Originally posted by the-elf Abyssynians/Ethiopians: Africa's first Christian monarchy and the only african nation to retain its independence throughout colonialization. The early ethiopian state was largely Jewish and responsible for numerous architectural feats rivaling the Egytian civilization in scale and ingenuity. Ethiopia is perhaps the oldest continuing nation-state on earth, and was possibly home to the Biblical Queen of Sheba.

Liberia was also never directly controled by a European power. Its independence was insured by the U.S.; several groups in the U.S. used Liberia as a substitute "homeland" to which freed black slaves could return to Africa. Of course this role become obsolete after the civil war.

Also you folks should dig up the old threads in the Civ3-Civilizations forum about which civs should be included in the XP. There have been polls and threads galore written on the subject.

[Dinner]

For those of you who don't know enough about the Celts, which seems to be most of you, I shall repost an article I wrote in a Celts XP thread which can be found at http://apolyton.net/forums/showthrea...threadid=29913 Cheers.

--------------
* The Celts *
--------------
Names: Celtic Empire, Celts, Celtic
Time Period: 500B.C. and 200 A.D. (though states such as Scotland & Ireland survive to this day)
Leader: King Arthorius (Arthur)
Unique units: Woad Warrior; a swordsman that has a +1 to movement
CSAs: Commercial and either Militerist or Religious.

Historical Significance: A widely spread cultural group that dominated Europe from 500B.C. to 200A.D.; Celtic artifacts have been found in Asia Minor and as far away as the Tarim basin, Xinjiang provience, China.

Description:
CELTS:- An ancient people who dominated much of Western , Central , Eastern Europe and Asia Minor in the 1st millennium bc, giving their language, customs, and religion to the other peoples of that area.
History:- The earliest found archaeological evidence associated with the Celts places them in what is now France and western Germany in the late Bronze Age around 1200 bc. In the early Iron Age, they are associated with the Halstatt culture (8th-6th cent. bc) named for an archaeological site in Upper Austria. They probably began to settle in the British Isles during this period. Between the 5th and 1st centuries bc , their influence extended from what is now Spain , the islands of the British Isles to the shores of the Black Sea , from the Ukraine to Turkey. This huge land/cultural region ( never an 'Empire') encompassing the areas mentioned influenced much of the continent of Europe and was greater in size then modern European Russia. Despite the shared religion/language and culture this large area was never politically united , finding only brief periods of unity when threatened by common foes. The later Iron Age phase of Celtic Culture is called La Tene, after a site in Switzerland and dates from the previously mentioned 5th to 1st centuries bc. Evidence from this period suggests that the Celts were the first peoples of Europe to actively use and work with iron. The word Celt is derived from Keltoi, the name given to these people by Herodotus and other Greek writers. To the Romans, the Continental Celts were known as Galli, or Gauls; those in Britain were called Britanni. In the 4th century bc the Celts invaded the Greco-Roman world, conquering northern Italy and sacking Rome, whilst also conquering Macedonia and Thessaly. They plundered Rome in 390, sacked Delphi in 279, and penetrated Asia Minor, where they were known as Galatians. The "Cisalpine Gauls" of northern Italy were conquered by the Romans in the 2nd century bc .Transalpine Gaul (modern France and the Rhineland) was subdued by Julius Caesar in the 1st century bc. and most of Britain came under Roman rule in the 1st century ad. In the same period. the Celts of central Europe being fragmented came under the domination by the Germanic peoples. In medieval and modern times the Celtic tradition and languages survived in Brittany ( Western France), Cornwall, Galicia ( North Western Spain) , Galatia ( Central Turkey), Wales, the Scottish Highlands, Isle of Man and Ireland, and to a lesser extent in the Norse/Celtic culture of Iceland.

Way of Life:- The various Celtic tribes were bound together by common speech, customs, and religion, rather than by any well defined central governments. There government was through the use of a feudal system with each tribe being headed by a king/chief and was divided by class into Druids (priests), warrior nobles, and commoners/freemen and slaves . Politically there was a great degree of democracy within the society with both men and women being treated equally and all important decisions being made at tribal gatherings in which women had an equal voice. Rulers were subject to removal at these gathering if found unsatisfactory or incompetent and succession was not necessarily hereditary. The absence of any large scale political unity amongst the tribes contributed substantially to the extinction of their way of life, making them vulnerable to their enemies. Their economy was pastoral and agricultural and they had no real urban life however trade played a large part in there economy . The nobles fought on foot with swords and spears and were fond of feasting and drinking. Celtic mythology, which included earth gods, various woodland spirits, and sun deities, was particularly rich in elfin demons and tutelaries, beings that still pervade the lore of peoples of Celtic ancestry.
Celtic Christianity:- The Christian faith was well established in Celtic Britain by the 4th century ad, but in the 5th century the Saxons and other Germanic peoples invaded the country, driving most of the Celtic Christians into Wales and Cornwall. At the same time. St. Patrick and other British missionaries founded a new church in Ireland, which then became the centre of Celtic Christianity. The Irish church developed a distinctive organization in which bishops were subordinate to the abbots of monasteries .The Irish monks, devoted to learning as well as religion, did much to preserve a knowledge of ancient Roman literature in early medieval Europe. Between the late 6th and the early 8th centuries, Irish missionaries were active in Christianizing the Germanic peoples that had conquered the Western Roman Empire, and they founded numerous monasteries in present-day France, Germany, Switzerland , and Italy. Celtic Christianity in Ireland was weakened by the Viking invasions of the 9th and 10th centuries, and by the 12th century its characteristic institutions, which were incompatible with those of the dominant Roman church, had largely disappeared from Europe.

Art:- Celtic art is considered the first great contribution to European art made by non Mediterranean peoples. Its roots go back to the artisans of the Urnfield culture and the Hallstatt culture (8th-6th cent. bc) at the beginning of the Iron Age. It flowered in the period of the La Tene culture. Although Celtic art was influenced by ancient Persian, Greek, Etruscan, and Roman art and by that of the nomads of the Eurasian steppes it developed distinctive characteristics. These are evident in its major artefacts-weapons, vessels, and jewelry in bronze, gold, electrum and occasionally silver. Many of these objects were made for chieftains in southern Germany and France and were recovered from their tombs. The Celtic style is marked by a preference for stylised plant motifs, usually of Greek origin, and fantastic animals, derived from the Scythians and other steppe peoples; however the human figure tended to play a secondary role. Other favourite motifs are elliptical curves and opposing curves. spirals, and chevrons, also derived from steppe art. These elements were combined in dynamic yet balanced, intricate geometrical patterns carried out in relief engraving, or red, yellow, blue, and green champleve enamel on shields, swords, sheaths, helmets, bowls, and jewelry. They also appeared on painted pottery cinerary urns, food vessels, incense bowls, and drinking cups. Examples of Celtic art include torcs, or neck rings, with the two open ends ornamented with animal heads, the silver repousse Cundestorp cauldron (c. 400 bc . National Museum, Copenhagen), a bronze lozenge-shaped shield with circular medallions and small enamel circles (1st cent. bc - 1st cent. ad ), and a bronze mirror with enamelled decoration (1st cent. bc) (both British Museum. London). Also surviving are roughly carved stone monuments and wooden objects. During the period of Roman domination of Western Europe in and after the 1st century bc the art of Celtic peoples on the Continent gradually lost its distinctive style. The Celts of Ireland continued to work with traditional motifs but as Christianity took hold, they combined them with Christian motifs and employed their skills in the service of the church.

Celts Today:- Today the people who call themselves Celts or still strongly identify with there celtic history can be found in the following areas:- Brittany France, Cornwall, Galicia Spain, Galatia Turkey, Ireland, Isle of Man, Scotland and Wales. All these areas have strong Celtic elements to there culture with some of them still speaking Celtic Languages whilst others though not speaking a Celtic language have strong Celtic cultural rootes. The modern Celts have a varied and rich history and have influenced many of the worlds current great nations with their pioneering spirit and love of adventure helping to found some of the worlds most progressive and greatest nations.