Should space race even be a victory condition?

[Jawa Jocky]

I want a re-count! If we counted hanging chads I bet my idea would have been in the majority.

I didn't think my suggestion would be that popular, but I'm suprised its only hovering at 10%. It sounds like the question should have been about the Diplomatic Victory, which IMO too is the worst. It think most of my complaints would be resolved, if it took a certain amount of future techs before you could finish the ship. Now that the settlers work better when in automation I don't mind playing into the modern era.

Now a confession. I have never won on a level past Warlord without using the Space race (only 2 Mon. wins). Maybe my frustration with the ease of the Space race is really my frustration about being a below average player. (I'll have to consult Freud).

[Brutus66]

You make a good point about the diplomatic victory, Scooby. Just goes to show that conquest is the only real winning condition.

Think about this- What if my nation built it's spaceship second and then conquered your colony on Alpha Centauri?

[Jawa Jocky]

Originally posted by Brutus66
You make a good point about the diplomatic victory, Scooby. Just goes to show that conquest is the only real winning condition.

Think about this- What if my nation built it's spaceship second and then conquered your colony on Alpha Centauri?

Or....what if you build it 2nd but by that time had technology for faster engines and got their 1st. (I just remembered that in earlier civs you could build a lighter ship (less parts) and get there quicker)

[Scooby_Doo]

Think about this- What if my nation built it's spaceship second and then conquered your colony on Alpha Centauri?

Yes, good idea, but is far beyond the scope of a civ game nowadays, sadly.
It would be quite good to have a combined Civ/SMAC megagame spanning two planets, wouldn't it?

I think most of the victory conditions are flawed, some more than others, but they do add extra flavour to the game, I suppose.

I think the spaceship victory should stay, but some of the others do need serious re-thinking as they just seem tacked on. The "standard" two (domination and spaceship) have been with civ for a long time and feel much more satifying and fleshed out than the others which don't seem to reward the player at all. Other than one pop up- "Er...well, that's it then. Good game old chum! Bye"
Wheres the fun in that?

I'm really beginning to hate the diplo victory now!

[Seghillian]

Originally posted by reefer addict
i always turn off the space race a) it seems like your running away from your problems on earth(oops i ruined my planet, better go find a new one)

That's a strange view from a resident of a country almost entirely populated by immigrants from Europe and elsewhere. There was a time historically, when I guess the American continent was as far away in the imagination as Alpha Centauri is now.

The Space victory is a perfectly plausible scenario. On Earth we currently have the technology to destroy ourselves, or poison ourselves with pollution, many times over, so who is to say that will not happen over the next 50 years, especially with maniacs like Osama and Saddam on the loose. The escape to another planet has been a staple of science fiction for many years and is a fitting (and somewhat ironic) end to "civilization".

[chiefpaco]

There should be one more vote for "Yes". I think I accidentally voted "No".

I like the victory condition but I think I'd prefer it come at the very end of the tech tree so I can get to the rest of the techs. Anyone with some advice? Has anyone changed it so? How?

[SpencerH]

I vote no for the spacerace even though its how I win almost all of my games (that I bother to finish). I never try to win by conquest, and I've never won by culture, diplomacy can be tricky (won and lost). So its usually spacerace for me. There are two problems though. It never seems like much of a race. Maybe its because there are no variations in the spaveship build scheme. With CIV2 I can recall much tighter nailbiting races trying to build the racer model after another civ had launched the minimum model. My second problem with the spacerace is that it becomes the complete focus of my civ in the modern era. Crank up science-get the tech, crank up production- build the part, ensure defense -WIN. Turning off spacerace is not the answer. Builders need another way to win (dont ask me how)!

[The Templar]

Shameless Plug -

I don't like the space race as written by Firaxis, so I made it more challenging. Check out my Space Race mod -

Space Race Mod

[Adagio]

I don't like how the space race victory is done so I also chose to change it, but I made it a lot more simple:

For each SS part I added 100 shields in production, this makes it take much longer to finish, and thereby we have reached future tech before launching the SS.

[Jethro83]

I'm all for the Space Race victory, being a peaceful builder most of the time. But the way the victory is achieved is cut too short.

You simply build all components and launch. Wow! Exciting!. Sure there's SOME rush from racing against others who are close to it, but its still not quite good enough.

What they should've done was to make it something like they did in Civ II, where the ship has to successfully land on the planet near Alpha Centauri before you win the victory. This way you can either build every possible component for the ship and launch, or if someone else has already launched, you can simply build a ship with less colonists and modules and better propulsion systems, therefore actually building a ship capable of overtaking the other civ's ship and making it to Centauri first.

Ah I remember playing Civ II TOT and witnessing my Celtic neighbours build a ship and launch it. My heart was racing much faster as my civ scrambled about trying to assemble a faster ship that would make it to Centauri before the other one (even though the other one has already been launched). Though I managed to beat them to it, it was a close race.

Just my opinion about the Space Race victory. It definitely belongs, as it would be our greatest achievement on this dying planet of Earth. Even if we can't do it before 2050, it is going to be the pinnacle of scientific advancement of humanity on Earth, as it will insure our survival when the planet finally keels over on us (environmentalism came too late to save Earth from this Planetdeath disease).

[Tingkai]

Re: Should space race even be a victory condition?

Originally posted by Jawa Jocky
IRL if the world works together we may be able to send a small team of scientist to Mars by 2050. This accomplishment is unlikely to happen, but it is possible.

However the idea of one country sending an entire colony off to journey toward AC by 2050 is absurd. Therefore, shouldn't the space race victory be eliminated?

I know its just a game, and victory conditions can set before playing. But the space race victory never seems to statisfy me.
However the ship itself is beautiful. It is even more phallic than the car the Ambiguously Gay Duo drive.

Yeah, but think of what could have happened if the US or the USSR had not got involved respectively in the Vietnam and Afghanistan.

If the money spent on fighting had been spent on space exploration, it may well have been possible to reach AC by 2050.

If the US had just kept up its drive for space exploration there could be people on Mars today.

When playing CIV we have to make a choice at the end game of conquest or space travel. If we didn't have that choice then we'd all end up taking the same strategy every game.

[Grumbold]

I like the space race because it either prompts world conflict (close game with players competing to launch) or allows a runaway victory to be drawn to a close without needing to go through all the combat required for dominance. If you'fe in the lead its your choice whether to build the spaceship. If you're not in the lead its a spur to get off your butt and DO something about it. The game where four nations including mine were racing for the launch is probably the only really exciting end-game I've played.

[Carver]

Yes

The space race adds a lot of tension to the end game. The requirement for uranium and aluminum can lead to plenty conflict. Moreover, it gives the small civs a chance at winning. The first regent game I won was a space win with the Greeks. I had a small island with maybe 11 cities on it and a micro island with 2 cities on it. (This was on a huge map.) I was able to keep buying techs from Lizzie, mostly with luxuries, while remaining at peace and focused on production. If 2050 is deemed unrealistic then Firaxis can extend the game to 2100 and increase the tech requirements.

[petey]

It ends the game in the middle

I think space race should be in there for people who like to have it. Personally, I always turn it off. Finishing off the game with huge wars with tanks and bombers is a lot of fun, IMHO, and it really annoys me when that's interrupted by the game becoming just one huge production race for these spaceship parts and then the game ends just when I'm about to go off pilliging and destroying

I feel the same way about Diplomatic Victory. If that's your game style, then great. But personally, I like the Domination Victory.