Editor ->Movement Rate for RR option

[Whoha]

how far can one move in a YEAR on a railroad? would this multiplier be map size specific? I dont mind if the ai has the advantage of unlimited movement when I invade his territory, and I seriously doubt that any mp game would last this long.

[Dida]

The simplest way to fix the infinite move thing is simply make unit on RR moves 9x faster. Other suggestions (limitation on number of unit, etc) is too complex. Plus, this concept has already been implemented in CTP. In that game, unit moves 3x as fast on road, and 5x as fast on RR. It is a very nice system, no one ever complaint about that. It is okay for a tank to move 2x faster than infantry. Some units moves faster then others, that is one of the reasons why you build different units.
For the air plane rebasing issue, I think airplanes should be able to rebase to a city/carrier twice its max operational range away. If a bomber's range is 6, it should be able to rebase to a city 12 tiles away, but not to a city that is 1000 tiles away. That is because bombing is a 2 way mission. If a plane can bomb targets 6 tiles away, it must have enough feul to fly 12 tiles continueously.
I don't see anything wrong with airdrop.

BTW: Fixed movement rate on RR regardless of unit type thing is also good. Simple enough.

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by Dida
The simplest way to fix the infinite move thing is simply make unit on RR moves 9x faster. Other suggestions (limitation on number of unit, etc) is too complex.

How is it more complex to have Rail Cap? We already have Air Cap, ie you can only air transport as many units as you have AirPorts. OK. It requires one more element in the game display. Not a big deal (to me).

I think it is absurd that the fastest (best) units would be able to rail far beyond the range of Infantry. Especially when it is far easier to move an Infantry Division transcontinental than it is any Mechanised Division.

BTW. Rail Cap would be more balanced than movement multipliers in that multipliers would be yet another advantage to fast units and one more disincentive to build Infantry.

Salve

[Captain]

Let's drop the idea of "one turn=one year" for now, okay? Yes, units on RR probably could travel around the whole world in a year, but so could aircraft and ships.

Let's just look at it as balancing movement so land units aren't so ridiculously fast.

Yes, a rail cap would seem to be a better solution. It brings in the question of how the moves left would be recorded though. would they be separate from regular movement points? That might make things too complex for a patch.
-edit-
(sorry, i meant lockstep's idea of limiting mvt to 9x ceiling.)
As for notyoueither's rail cap idea, that would work well too. is that as easy to do as the RR mvt rate option?
-end edit-



Just for a simple patch, they could add RR movement as editable. If it's 3x, on top of the road 3x, that's 9x total. Plenty enough but not infinite. There is the different moves conundrum, but I don't think it's much of a real problem.

Consider, most modern armies DO use non-human transportation methods - very similar to tanks. So give them all the same movement and we won't have this problem of infantry moving 9x while armour goes 36x. They'll all go 36x. A lot of modern artillery is self-propelled as well. Definitely NOT perfect, but overall, problem solved!

Or am I missing some other consideration?

(Note: Simple solutions people, for the next patch or XP. Not a whole new game. I don't want to wait for Civ 4 to have this option.)

[Dida]

for a simple patch, Firaxis can make all unit move at the same rate(not infinite), or, make RR 3x more powerful than roads. Those are simple enough to implement.
Giving a max unit a RR line can transport is too complex, this will require re programming lots of stuff.

[Captain]

Ok, so we've got some ideas here and some of them seem pretty simple to implement. Shouldn't unbalance the game IMHO, and I think the AI will be more than able to handle it.

Now, how do we let Firaxis know?

[Dida]

Originally posted by Captain
Ok, so we've got some ideas here and some of them seem pretty simple to implement. Shouldn't unbalance the game IMHO, and I think the AI will be more than able to handle it.

Now, how do we let Firaxis know?

in fact, limiting the movement rate on RR can help the AI. Because a human player would know to concentrate his force and wipe out the invader as soon as he landed, but the computer doesn't handle that too well.

[Captain]

New idea:

Is it possible to create a "land transport" unit?

I know the army can sort of do this, but it doesn't have it's own mvt rate, plus it fights. So that's no good.

I want to do this:
Create a "transport" that is a land unit.
Load and unload, say up to 8 units.
Movement rate of 7x or 8x (along roads, that's 21 tiles or 24 tiles).
Then I would disable RR and treat these as "trains" (assume that the RR gets laid in the construction cost of building the "train".

Anyone out there know if this is possible?

[Dida]

I'm regret to tell you, that your idea sucks.
Why? because it adds more micormanagement to this already tedious game. Imagine you have to load and unload all those unit, one by one, move them, and unload again. Just give me a break.

[Captain]

Originally posted by Dida
I'm regret to tell you, that your idea sucks.
Why? because it adds more micormanagement to this already tedious game. Imagine you have to load and unload all those unit, one by one, move them, and unload again. Just give me a break.

Not any more micromanagement than you already have to do to organize sea invasions.

I tend to see it as micromgt with a purpose. Limiting movement adds strategy. Having unlimited moves to just shuttle all your units to the frontlines without thinking is tedious. This is not, IMHO. Now you've actually got to consider which units you want where in which round, so as to serve the best purpose.


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I should probably note that I'm trying to develop a "reductionist" mod. I'm increasing variety but trying to decrease absolute numbers. (eg. my military ideal is about 60 units, NOT the typical 200. My ideal empire is 25 cities.) Each city is very unique (not clones of each other) and so very valuable. You won't be able to build every improvement in every city. I plan to scale up power so that as the ages go by, you keep roughly the same # of units but increase their power.
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Still, anyone know if it's even possible to do what I'm hoping? Otherwise I'm just wasting my breath.


But again, I would be happy with having the option of changing the RR movement rate. So no worries, as long as we get rid of infinite movement.

[Dienstag]

I voted for #4, pretty much because I want something like the rail capacity idea mentioned above...

Yes, that might not be patch material, but it sounds to me like the best fix for these movement issues. That, and increase naval movement.

If they can do it for a patch, though, I be happy to play the 9x railroads. Anything other than infinite movement will promote more decision making and strategy, and just might be more realistic anyway.