Some notes about trading in v.1.17f

[Hurricane]

I posted this on the other forum, too, but I think this deserves to be available for everybody.

I started a new game to test how trading really works under the new patch. And I found some really strange stuff. This is of course a limited test and will require more work, but I think I have found a few things already.

Game stats: Regent, 6 civs, small Pangea map, playing with the multi-trick to see the whole map. I started as the Russians to quickly contact the other civs. On Regent, the AI should trade with the human eqaully as with the AI:s. This is a screenshot of the map in 1175 BC.

[Hurricane]

Notes from the early game:

* All AI civs put 100% on science. Because of this they won´t offer anything more than 10 g lump sum, no matter what you offer. Even on Regent won´t the AI trade the starting techs equally (more like 3:1).

* The AI is very keen on signing ROP:s. They happily paid 25g or a Worker in order to get it. Neither party ever even came close the other civ's borders. The possible reason for this strange behaviour is that the AI is in its expansion phase and gets a granted 20 turn peace with the human player while it expands and leaves it military weak. They don´t sign ROP:s with each other. Signing ROP:s is an easy way of profiting from the AI, and discovering Writing should be a primary goal in the early game.

* The AI sells contacs rather cheap. In the test game, the Atzechs bought contact to the English for 15 gold (trasury 25g) and to the Romans for the remaining 10 g.

* When the AI discovered Map making, it traded it to everybody. No cash changed owner, so they must have got world maps in exchange.

* On Regent, it seems that the AI values one tech to cost in gold roughly 6 times the tech cost. For example, the AI offered 12 gold for Ceremonial Burial. This cost is then reduced depending on how many civs already know the tech. For example, China was ready to sell Map Making for 44 gold to me. Map Making cost 12 x 6 = 72, 4 civs of 6 knew it = discount 66%, which gives a value of 48. The difference of 4 can be explained by bargaining.

All the above things seem straightforward and ok. However, strange things start to happen when the World Map comes into play.

In 1200 BC, the 4 civs England, Atzechs, Rome and China all have the same techs. Egypt has fallen behind about 4 techs and has 0 gold. Everybody has contact with everybody, there are no goody huts left, and all civs have 100% on science, i.e. they have a zero cash flow. I trade maps with everybody twice, so that all civs (Egypt included) now have exactly the same maps. I end the turn.

England moves first and destroys a barb camp, get 25 g and now have 55 g total. Then the Aztechs move, then the Egyptians, Romans and last the Chinese. I open up the Forign Advisor, and suddenly the Aztechs, Romans and the Chinese have both Code of Laws and Philosphy! England has only Code of Laws, while Egypt has nothing new. I think this is what happens:

1) England´s turn. They get the barb camp and have 55 g.
2) Aztechs turn. They discover Code of Laws and sell it to the English for 55 gold. Code of Laws cost 10, so a price of 55 seems well within reason.
3) Egypt´s turn. Nothing special.
4) Romans turn. They discover Philosophy and trade it for Code of Laws with the Aztechs. Philosphy only costs 6, but Laws is now known by 2 civs, reducing its value to 6.67 (33% discount). Seems reasonable.
5) China´s turn. They also discover Code of Laws. They sell their world map to the Atzechs for Philosophy (worth 24) and 20 gold!

How the hell did that happen??? China only moved one warrior into new territory. Everybody had identical maps, and now China sell it for this ridiculous price.

If this is what actually happened, it has some severe consequenses. First, the human has no possibility of hindering AI trades by always making sure they have nothing to trade, since it seems they will happily pay lots for a map that has been updated since the last turn.

Second, the last AI player to move gets a heavy discount on most of its trades. England had to pay the full price of 55 gold for Code of Laws, and each later player got the tech cheaper. China, who moved last, could buy it for almost nothing. This can be the reason China always seem to be one of the best civs in my games, and why England always is a loser.

I attach the savegame so you can test it and see if there is anything I overlooked.

As a sidenote, I can report as a possible bug that the game crashed if I tried to "contact governor" when I at the same time had the civmod.bic open in the editor.

[DarkCloud]

Originally posted by Hurricane
Notes from the early game:

* All AI civs put 100% on science. Because of this they won´t offer anything more than 10 g lump sum, no matter what you offer. Even on Regent won´t the AI trade the starting techs equally (more like 3:1).

Have you tried the game with different maps, that may change the strategies?

But the other problems sound like real difficulties.

[Hurricane]

No, I just started testing. It´s a slow project, so if anybody could confirm my findings with other parameters, it would be great.

[DarkCloud]

Oh well, good luck- I don't have Civ III so I can't be of too much help here