1.17f Tech progress

[Arrian]

Having played one game into the mid-Industrial Age with 1.17, I think the tech progress is too fast. It's not a terrible thing, but I do think it needs further balancing.

Normal/Continents/8civs/Monarch: the Industrial Age began circa 1000AD. In other words, a tad bit early. This, I have no doubt, is related to the new AI tech trading introducted by the patch, coupled with some tweaks to the cost of various techs.

If this was done (in part) to fix the tech progress in Chieftain and Warlord level games (which was terribly slow because the AI is severely handicapped), then I think it was done in error. Instead, the restrictions placed upon the AI on those levels should be removed, and a corresponding bonus given to the human player. That ought to fix things nicely.

The tech trading thing I know was done (mostly) as a play balance to keep the AI competitive into the Industrial and Modern Ages. Perhaps the tech progress rate needs to be slowed just a tad to compensate for the flurry of trading.

Again, I'm basing this on a Monarch level game on a Normal Map, so it may not apply to the other map sizes and/or difficulty settings.

Thanks,

-Arrian

[DrFell]

Tech speeds were much greater in civ2. Some people even managed to launch a spaceship in the early AD years on deity. This isn't really a big deal, I think it doesn't really matter when dfferent ages start. If history had been different the industrial age could have started 800 years before it did. That's what civ is about, changing history. After all, it would be pretty boring if in every game there was a ww1 and a ww2, all in the same years as it happened in the real world with the same results, or in every game the romans became very powerful but then collapsed due to barbarians. Enjoy the differences, don't try to fix them.

[Spec]

...or just use the editor and increase the time limit for a tech discovery.

[Arrian]

Drfell,

I understand your point, and I would agree, but for one thing. It takes time to build up your empire. Building those libraries, marketplaces, aqueducts, etc. takes quite a few turns. If you end up blazing through the tech tree too fast, you don't have enough time to do all of that - or at least that's how I feel. The example I posted is borderline, and though I felt a bit rushed, I was able to build the city improvements and enough of a military to defend myself. But then again, I was helped by some really nice luck (settler from first hut, great leader VERY early - rushed Pyramids right after building Great Library, three leaders since... and I've fought two wars). If the tech went even faster... I'd be still building marketplaces when I had the tech for universities and banks.

I like a well developed empire, and that takes time. If most people agree with you, that tech progress should be left alone, then ok, Firaxis should leave it alone, and I can always try to tweak it in the editor so I like it.

-Arrian

[DrFell]

You may be right in that respect, but then just turn down sci to 0% Shame buildings cost so much to buy now, it could make it hard to keep up. Although right now I find I have too little to build in some eras (long stretches with nothing but units to build in large cities).

[Arrian]

Yeah, with 1.16 there were some down periods, but I used those to build units. I agree that the game dragged a bit pre-1.17, but now I think it's a little too quick. Damn, I'm hard to please, apparently.

I know this isn't the biggest issue out there, btw, I just felt like throwing it out there for debate. It appears that I'm in the minority. Therefore, the tech progress will likely remain the same.

-Arrian

[Alex]

Arrian: I agree with you, the tech progress became much much faster, somewhat unbalancing the game.

Not that I want Civ3 to be a historical simulator, but the accelerated research creates a lot of outdated units. In my last game, I started to build spearmen and all of a sudden I had the tech for pikemen, but had no money to upgrade them, turning spearmen into a unit that was useful for only a few turns, rendering my defensive forces obsolete.

I must say I was playing at Warlord (first game after the patch, I wanted to relax and get a feel for the changes).

[Worthingtons]

The Tech speed is way too fast... It's driving me mad..
I've just built an army of legions.. but by the time they get to thier destination they're up against Tanks!!... well.. maybe it's not quite that fast but still....

[Calvin Vu]

I posted a question a few weeks ago regarding the normal tech progress other people run into at deity (standard map/large continent/8 civs) since, for a few games I played, the AI tech progress was just way too fast for me to catch up. I would usualy receive a message that some AI civ completed the NU around 250AD and some AI civ started to build an Industrial Age wonder before 500AD. Since they were on different continents as well, it was hard to catch up by peaceful mean or to load up enough troops onto the flimsy medieval transports and attack them.
In my last deity game before I dropped down to Emperor to have a little more fun and less pressure, I did win and the AI tech progress was not too fast any more. I guess maybe one of these two things helped:
1) I changed the numbers of optimal cities back to the original numbers (I had all numbers multiplied by 6 before) since I suspected that decreasing the corruption helped the ICS cities built by the AI civs in their research rate beyond what the game was designed for at the early stage when researching cost is relatively cheap.
2) I tried to do some of my own research instead of buying them from the AI since I thought maybe the AI civs used the exorbitant prices they charged me to fund their own science rate to 100%.
I haven't got the patch but if the corruption is decreased with the patch then doesn't the research rate become faster as the consequence due to the extra gold from the less-corrupted cities, ? That is, unless something else get tweaked to get the game back to balance.

[Pyrodrew]

Blink

Originally posted by Arrian
Yeah, with 1.16 there were some down periods, but I used those to build units. I agree that the game dragged a bit pre-1.17, but now I think it's a little too quick. Damn, I'm hard to please, apparently.
I know this isn't the biggest issue out there, btw, I just felt like throwing it out there for debate. It appears that I'm in the minority. Therefore, the tech progress will likely remain the same.
-Arrian

The 'down periods' would have been better improved by providing more options of different buildings/small wonders to make. That would also fill in some of those empty techs as well.

I believe the Fast Tech Rate was put in as a means to try to make the Industrial Age & Modern Age more interesting at the same time make games end quicker. The upside is since the AI trades more at least we won't be 2 Ages ahead of all the AI Civs now. The downside is the ever popular powerful Cavalry being discovered sooner & the Ancient/Midevil Ages everyone said they "loved" so much now vanishes in the blink of an eye.

[Saurus]

Originally posted by Rothy
The Tech speed is way too fast... It's driving me mad..
I've just built an army of legions.. but by the time they get to thier destination they're up against Tanks!!... well.. maybe it's not quite that fast but still....

I Agree.
I can´t really make use of any techology before it is
already outdated. Not fun, not fun.
I already reverted back to 1.16f. More fun.

-Saurus