Making armor more realisitc

[GePap]

The simplest way to make armor more realisitc, and at the same time encourage the use of combined arms, if only by the player, is to make all armor vehicles (Tanks, Panzers, Radar Arty, Mech Inf. Modern Armor ) 'wheeled'. The fact is that tanks can't navigate Jungles of mountains unless there are roads, which was one fo the reasons for heavy looses by both the USSR and US in their respective experiences in Afghanistan and Vietnam. By making these vehicles armored, roads through difficult terrains becomes cruccial, and if any likn is cut, it forces the player to bring in workers,a nd the inf to protect them, to rebuild the road.

This is a simple tweak anyone can make in the editor, and it really should be seen as standard by anyone who claims they want 'reality' in their game, or anyone sick of the overpowering nature of fast units.

[nato]

I think that's a really clever idea GePap!

I like anything that makes the units more varied or specialized. And that kind of terrain really is a job for infantry.

[ACooper]

I like it. It's a simple change in the editor.


Good idea.

[Tuberski]

Excellent idea!

Also a good idea on rivers...even in grassland.

They have an Army Corp of engineers for a reason

[Dis]

that would just piss me off

now I just realized today why I never built chariots in the past. They won't unload from a galley onto jungle . yes it's been a while since I played. I forgot about that.

[GePap]

In some mods

I have seen this in some mods, and in those long discussions about how unrelistic the combat is the idea that terrain matters always came up- but this idea of making armor 'wheeled', which seems something elementary, never really came up- I think it is because it would make the game harder for those that just use armor rushing near the end of the game. Heavens forbid a square my tanks can't take!

[dnassman]

A very common sense and practical idea. Could have some very interesting and varied battles happening.

[whosurdaddy]

But how would i recreate the Ardennes offensive of Germany in 1940 and 1944???

[steelehc]

The Germans levelled the forest in front of their tanks, in effect, they built roads. Crappy roads, mere paths without trees, but thats what they were, and thats what you'll have to do.

Steele

EDIT:

This is a very good idea. I am going to go do it immeadiatly. My problem is that I don't want my modern tanks requiring accompaniment by WW1 Infantry. Obviously, some more serious modding is required. I'll make a modern foot infantry unit.

Steele

[nato]

For me, I don't think a new infantry unit is needed.

Except for the anti tank abilities, late WWI infantry is not vastly different from modern infantry, I don't think. The tactics developed at the end of WWI were pretty current.

Being trained to work with armor is a big difference, but I think the mechanized infantry units represent that. There are still guys just on foot.

I think in the broad Civ terms of abstraction, WWI and modern infantry wouldn't be too different (since there is no way to specify anti tank abilities, comparable to pikemen vs mounted units in Civ2).

I kind of see Civ3 infantry as representing end of WWI to modern foot soldiers. I see riflemen as late Napoleonic to early WWI units. That's just how I see them though.

I'm sure military history types will love to disagree with me now...

Quick Edit: Remember, we are talking in Civ terms here, where one unit represents the same type of troops for a long period. In those very broad terms, I think WWI to modern would be one unit (since anti tank can't be specifically represented).

[steelehc]

Nato, you have a good point, one that I did not think of. However, I do draw a distinction between guys with bolt-action rifles and guys with automatic weapons. I was thinking of modding Marines and Paratroopers into one "special-ops" unit, and using the other to create a "Light Infantry, Modern Infantry" kinda thing. This unit would be the modern equivalent of the regular infantry.

Steele

[player1]

Re: Making armor more realisitc

Originally posted by GePap
The simplest way to make armor more realisitc, and at the same time encourage the use of combined arms, if only by the player, is to make all armor vehicles (Tanks, Panzers, Radar Arty, Mech Inf. Modern Armor ) 'wheeled'. The fact is that tanks can't navigate Jungles of mountains unless there are roads, which was one fo the reasons for heavy looses by both the USSR and US in their respective experiences in Afghanistan and Vietnam. By making these vehicles armored, roads through difficult terrains becomes cruccial, and if any likn is cut, it forces the player to bring in workers,a nd the inf to protect them, to rebuild the road.

This is a simple tweak anyone can make in the editor, and it really should be seen as standard by anyone who claims they want 'reality' in their game, or anyone sick of the overpowering nature of fast units.

Idea is great, but there is on problem:
If Tank is wheeled them Mech. Inf. should be wheeled.

But if you get Computers (mech. inf.) you can't build Infantry anymore so you don't have good mountain defender.

Although...

Paratroopers could help.

[GePap]

Originally posted by whosurdaddy
But how would i recreate the Ardennes offensive of Germany in 1940 and 1944???

While I know it was in jest, 'wheeled' units can cross forests. The two types of terrain they can't cross without roads are Jungle and mountains.

[nato]

Sounds cool Steele. Combining Marines and Paratroopers is a pretty good way to free up a unit slot.

I guess it would make a difference to me to be the guy with the automatic weapon, if I just absolutely had to make a choice .

[Willem]

Re: Making armor more realisitc

Originally posted by GePap
The simplest way to make armor more realisitc, and at the same time encourage the use of combined arms, if only by the player, is to make all armor vehicles (Tanks, Panzers, Radar Arty, Mech Inf. Modern Armor ) 'wheeled'. The fact is that tanks can't navigate Jungles of mountains unless there are roads, which was one fo the reasons for heavy looses by both the USSR and US in their respective experiences in Afghanistan and Vietnam. By making these vehicles armored, roads through difficult terrains becomes cruccial, and if any likn is cut, it forces the player to bring in workers,a nd the inf to protect them, to rebuild the road.

This is a simple tweak anyone can make in the editor, and it really should be seen as standard by anyone who claims they want 'reality' in their game, or anyone sick of the overpowering nature of fast units.

Aah, great minds think alike. Or is it fools seldom differ? Anyway, I've come up with the same idea. I've also added it to all my mounted units as well. So only my foot soldiers can cross Mountains or Jungle without a road. It certainly puts a damper on the dreaded Cavalry charge!