Without Criticism, There Would Be No Decent Patching: Agree or Disagree?

[yin26]

Why not? The discussions continue, they listen in and occasionally say something. So?

Right. On the points where they 'occasionally' say something, things usually quiet down if the thing said answers the question at hand.

[siredgar]

All of this really depends if the company cares or not. Judging by Firaxis' participation and monitoring of the fan sites, I would say so. To what extent I do not know.

[notyoueither]

Everyone's a critic. Even those who like the game. Or do I see empty suggestion threads?

Then again, do the critics expect to attract no criticism? How unfair! It's a discussion board. Live with it or shut up.

My only abiding complaint about the process is when it goes personal. When someone attacks the designers, or one of the designers personally, they cannot reply. By the very nature of their positions, they are denied a voice in the mud-slinging. So that is when the flames without end begin. Because you bet, someone will reply for them, and then... and then...

Salve

[Libertarian]

I suppose I should say that, for the record, I agree with the statements that I've made.

[Zachriel]

Originally posted by notyoueither
Everyone's a critic. Even those who like the game. Or do I see empty suggestion threads? . . .
My only abiding complaint about the process is when it goes personal. Salve

Hear! Hear!

In any case, I'm sure that patches were inevitable, not forced by complaints. Constructive criticism is absolutely essential to the process.

[Atahualpa]

suggestion and critic is something different


voted depends.

Besides I think I would love civ3 if I havent played so much civ2 before. The civ series has nothing to offer for me anymore. Civ3 is still a top notch game and I play it from time to time always having some fun. Though as said, I have played to much in this genre. Time to move to something else. Operation Flashpoint for example is a hell of a game!!!

ata

[Spiffor]

Voted Depends :

Some additions, like stacking units and sentry command come clearly from the revendications of the fans (Revendications like stacking units were born thanks to the activism of some, like Lib, but not him alone).
But We shouldn't overestimate the importance of fans : good ideas can be drowned in a sea of noise, flamefests and whining, and thus not listened. There are plenty of excellent ideas which are incompatible with Civ code, or with the wishes of general public (and again, these good ideas make a kind of "noise", albeit constructive, around the implementable good ideas).

[Steve Clark]

Obviously voted "Depends".

It's simply, unlike the perception, Apolyton is only a tiny fraction of the Civ3 customers and even among hardcore civers, it is but one place (with civfanatacs, usenet and others having equally valuable input). Do you really that "we" are better than everyone else and that our "opinions" should weigh that much more? I personally believe that Firaxis receives far more email than what has been posted here because, again, we are a small percentage of their customers.

[ACooper]

Let me go on record as saying "depends". Pointing out what the game lacks is a very valuable thing, but constantly posting over and over and complaining that nothing is getting done is worthless.

"We" have had to sit through numerous complaints about the same topic over and over and then be subjected to the "Why won't you answer me?" whines, while some of us took the time to post in the "suggestions" thread and not go for some kind of "personal glory".

I personally find it offensive when someone claims that if they hadn't screamed and yell and posted assinine comments repeatedly that "nothing would have been done." This is another slap in the face of all the working people at Firaxis. These kinds of actions are embarrassment to everyone here at Apolyton.

Firaxis programers made the patch. They obviously have been working on this for some time. It would have been done regardless of the whines. To think other wise is delusional

[lawren8]

Originally posted by Encomium
I resent your use of the term "whining" in the poll.

If everyone was as mindless and easily-pleased as some of the fanboys around here Firaxis would have no problem putting out shoddy underdeveloped merchandise over and over, besides not fixing what they got wrong in the first place.

Perfect example of whining -- more effort put into insulting people than into the content.

Direct thought out suggestions, complaints, and critisisms are helpful. Folks like you give the critics of this forum a bad name.
Suggestions - pull the insults out of your messages and see
if there's any content before posting.

[Libertarian]

Let's give that a try:

Perfect ... people ... are helpful. Folks like you give ... messages...

Yep, big improvement.

[ACooper]

Originally posted by Libertarian
Let's give that a try:

Perfect ... people ... are helpful. Folks like you give ... messages...



Yep, big improvement.

Good one Lib! I don't agree with the message, but still you are a master of subjective ommisions.

[Sirian]

Everybody has their own agenda. That's life. Some people forward their agendas aggressively, and sometimes that pays off for them, sometimes it backfires.

If the guys at Firaxis didn't have a strong vision for what they want the playing experience to be like, the game would show this lack. That they are open to listening, to considering the feedback they receive, is good enough for me. I'm sure they realize that even the "whiners" care a great deal about their product, and take some comfort from that. They're still just regular folks, too, though, so I'm sure it bothers them at least on some level when people have unkind things to say.

Rebalancing and polishing a game this intricate is a tough, involved process. There are things that escape the imagination. That's where fans help a LOT, able (perhaps) to offer feedback in whatever blind spots the game designers may have. They clearly do value the feedback, and it definitely has some impact, but fans are as obligated (in a moral sense) to remain humble about their place in this relationship as Firaxis is.

To the degree that a few individuals get too emotional, either on the attack or in defense, this reflects more on them individually (IMO) than it does on the hosts of the forums. I know all too well how little control a forum moderator/operator really does have, as I've been in those shoes myself. The Pros at Firaxis are doing plenty right -- the best job I've seen from any game company in the last few years in patching their game and dealing with fans.

Good faith goes a long way with me. It's not everything, but it's the biggest thing. That's all I have to say for now.


- Sirian

[badassb]

voted "rarely"

I've been reading these forums for quite a while. I have'nt really written a lot. Way back, when they were discussing a successor to civII, I read a lot of interesting things. None of it, really made it in CivIII. So, my conclusion: Firaxis makes its own game, simple and hououst.

P.S. by the way, I like civ III, I can play it for hours.

[DrFell]

Yeah, without criticism the game would not improve at all, apart from a few bug fixes. You can see this with stacked movement, do you honestly think that would have gone in without people complaining about the time it takes to move units around? Or the weakened retreat. Constuctive criticism is vital for improving the game, all you whiner whiners do no real good at all.