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Civilization = Van Halen

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  • Civilization = Van Halen

    The ongoing debate between the "fanboys" and the "whiners" reminds me of the fans of a certain rock band about 15 years ago.

    For those of you who either aren't fans of hard rock or were too young, when Van Halen came out in 1978 it was a stunning record (yeah record, not CD), highly original and just totally kicked a$$. Van Halen became extremely popular with a large and fanatical fan base. This continued for several years until singer David Lee Roth left the band. Sammy Hagar replaced him, and after that Van Halen's sound was forever changed. A good sized number of former fans (one could say a "vocal minority") claimed that the new incarnation of the band sucked and they were only interested in making money (sound familiar?). Meanwhile despite the protestations of their former fans, Van Halen sold more albums and singles and were generally more successful after Roth left. Yet to this day, most metal fans will tell you that the David Lee Roth-era Van Halen was the greatest rock band ever. Meanwhile not a lot of people make the same claim about Van Hagar.

    So what does this mean? David Lee (or Sid and Brian) have left. Civ plays different. A lot of people like Civ 3, and a lot of people have bought Civ 3. But a lot of people don't like it, because it is not really the same game that blew everyone away 10 years ago. I have played Civ 3 and to me it's okay. Not great, not all-out addicting like when I brought home the original, just okay. Some parts are good, some really annoying - sorta like Sammy Hagar-era Van Halen. In 10 years, people will still be saying that Civ and Civ 2 were the greatest games ever made. Not many people will be saying the same about Civ 3.

    The "whiners" wanted to be blown away, just like Civ 1 and Civ 2 did. Perhaps it's a bit much to ask that a 10 year old game concept be as mind-blowing nowadays.

  • #2
    An inteesting comparison, BucksRock. There certainly is a desire for civ fans to want to be "blown" away. I know I wanted to get that "one-more-turn" syndrome back in civ 111.

    Who says there are no "moral" lessons to be learned from big band rock'n'roll?

    Note, though good, no Van Halen era was the greatest.
    "Giving money and power to government is like giving whiskey and car keys to teenage boys."
    --P.J. O'Rourke

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    • #3
      Yep, Interesting post, But i dont think it's too much to ask for Civ III to blow us away. I think a lot think that, if certain things were changed/fixed in Civ III, it would be a very good game indeed.
      Up The Millers

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      • #4
        Perhaps it's just that Civ fans aren't the sorts to get carried away with mob reactions (mindless like/dislike of something), and we expect too much of an improvement on the other games due to our discernment.
        Consul.

        Back to the ROOTS of addiction. My first missed poll!

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        • #5
          But don't forget

          That in Infrogrames and Firaxis labled Civ3 as the Greatest Civ game ever in thier advertisments and on thier web pages and here if I am not mistaken, and also in interviews in magazines.

          I beleive IMHO it's thier fault that we have had Very High expectations of this game and expected to have our socks knocked off us.

          Davor

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          • #6
            Re: But don't forget

            Originally posted by Yolky
            That in Infrogrames and Firaxis labled Civ3 as the Greatest Civ game ever in thier advertisments and on thier web pages and here if I am not mistaken, and also in interviews in magazines.

            I beleive IMHO it's thier fault that we have had Very High expectations of this game and expected to have our socks knocked off us.

            Davor
            Oh come off it. Hyping a product is just standard market practice. Of course they're going to say it's the best ever, I wouldn't expect anything else. If you're so easily swayed that you believe every product pitch that comes your way, then you're due for a life full of disappointments and an empty bank account.
            Last edited by Willem; February 11, 2002, 11:56.

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            • #7
              Re: Re: But don't forget

              Originally posted by Willem


              Oh come off it. Hyping a product is just standard market practice. Of course they're going to say it's the best ever, I wouldn't expect anything else. If you're so easily swayed that you believe everything product pitch that comes your way, then you're due for a life full of disappointments and an empty bank account.
              That's how I viewed AvP2. I knew it was going to be a flop for my game tastes.
              I drink to one other, and may that other be he, to drink to another, and may that other be me!

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              • #8
                Sure, but what kind of slogan would "Civilization III: Rewrite History with the 264th Greatest Game of All Time" be?

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                • #9
                  reason they sold more when he left is cos van halen then proceded tro turn into a pop group.

                  compare Van Halen (the first album) to Van Halen 3 (the last). no comparison. each album seemed to become more pop then the last.

                  and after Eruption and Spanish fly, nothing else quite cuts it.
                  eimi men anthropos pollon logon, mikras de sophias

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                  • #10
                    We have yet to see whether the analogy also pertains to the crappy solo career of Roth after he left Van Halen. What game is Sid or Brian's "California Girls" ?

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                    • #11
                      sim-golf?

                      dinosaurs?
                      Sorry....nothing to say!

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Slax
                        We have yet to see whether the analogy also pertains to the crappy solo career of Roth after he left Van Halen. What game is Sid or Brian's "California Girls" ?
                        Hey alright, we live in the same city.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by The Andy-Man
                          reason they sold more when he left is cos van halen then proceded tro turn into a pop group.

                          compare Van Halen (the first album) to Van Halen 3 (the last). no comparison. each album seemed to become more pop then the last.
                          No way!!! Fair Warning was the fourth, heaviest (some say darkest) and in my opinion the best of the collection.

                          But speaking of VH3, BucksRock although making an awesome analogy failed to take into consideration the embarassingly short stint of Gary Cherone in the band.

                          Following the comparison, we can expect CivIV to be something along the lines of Pong...

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                          • #14
                            Speaking of Van Halen, doesn't the picture of Rifleman in Civilopedia look like the guy is playing guitar instead of holding a rifle?

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                            • #15
                              I have to admit I've been trying unsuccessfully for several hours to find a way to work a "Hot for Teacher" joke into this thread.

                              Dan
                              Dan Magaha
                              Firaxis Games, Inc.
                              --------------------------

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