When does the AI ask for peace(Soren?)

[MarkG]

your experiences on how the AI "values" war and peace?

[Ironwood]

The AI generally asks for peace once it's been defeated. What I mean by this is that it has no present capabiliy of maintaining an offensive.

For example, in a recent game, I played the Chinese on a tiny map. The Babylonians were the only great power still standing, and surprise attacked me. I only had a small force of swordsmen and horses, and so fought a defensive war, destroying their attack force, but not confident enough to go on the offensive. The Babs, not being terribly agressive, sued for peace, and, not prepared to continue the war, I agreed.

Later on, in the same game, they were trying to wage war against the Persians (who had only one city) across my territory. Every turn it was, leave or declare war. They leave. Leave or declare war. They leave. Finally, after a good period of time, they finally got it through their thick skulls that I wasn't going to allow them to attack the Persians, and they declared war. My first few riders eliminated their attack force, and the Persians managed to capture a city that the Babs had captured from me. They then sued for peace. I refused, since they weren't yet ready to hand over all their tech, and I was still ready to go (as were the Persians).

It was actually kind of cool seing Chinese Riders and Persian Immortals fighting alongside one another. The Persians gave a good account of themselves in that war, though I managed to culture absorb all their gains later on.

Finally the Babs sued for peace, and gave me everything, including their one remaining non-capital city on a nearby island. Later on, when their former capital (Babylon) revolted (that was unexpected, considering I was at peace with the Babylonian Government, had a few Chinese citizens in Babylon, no happiness problem, etc.) I declared war to retake Babylon, and proceeded to eliminate them (having already eliminated the Persians and the Japanese the main continent), thus achieving military victory during the middle ages.

I've found the Germans to be much more agressive, and I need to capture a few cities before they sue for peace.

Overall, I am pleased by the present model. It seems to make sense, and, unlike in previous games, it is actually possible to leave a city or two unconqured and still have a relatively stable situation (so long as no betrayal occurred). In Civ2, I pretty much had to eliminate anyone who shared a land mass with me, since if I didn't, they'd build up a horde and proceed to flow over the border (and no option to demand that they leave). In Civ3, the AI seems content to accept defeat, and pursue any ambitions elsewhere.

EDIT: I should mention that I play at Reagent. Having beaten a game at this level, I will soon begin playing at Monarch.

[Harovan]

By my experience, the AI often asks for peace (or is ready to see my envoy), when it has no offensive units left.

Also, there seems to run a turn counter. After it reaches a certain number (could be the famous 20 turns...), the probability for the AI peacemaking seems to increase.

But there are exceptions: sometimes the AI does neither sue for peace nor even wants to talk with me, if it has only 1 city left and I have a bunch of attackers at an adjacent square. I have to completely destroy it. This prevents often my attempts to "vassalize" an AI civ.

But all that are just my observations. It seems not to be predictable. I think that's ok, because a predictable AI would make the game boring.

[Dida]

Sometimes the AI will refuse the peace talk even if it has nothing left. I attacked the Indian with 100+ tanks, 60 bombers and 60 Mech. Inf and took most of their nation in 2 turns. They got only 1 city left and still refuse to see my envoy. So I destroyed them. Maybe if I wait a few more turns, they will finally agree to talk.

[Alex]

By my experience, the AI often asks for peace (or is ready to see my envoy), when it has no offensive units left.

I have to agree. I was playing as the greeks and decided to start a war against the aztecs. I signed a military alliance with the romans against the aztecs, and I took over three of their cities (the romans took over another one). I was satisfied, and tried to make peace with the aztecs. They refused to see my envoy. Instead of trying to conquer more aztec cities, I decided to settle down and see what would happen. A few turns later, after bloody battles against the romans, the aztecs contacted me and asked for peace. I can only imagine that they were in a short of offensive units, and tried to calm things down on one front, in order to relocate all their resources to the other front. But that would be a frightening human behavior for a computer...

[player1]

Maybe too much of razing or nuke using can make AI civs less likely to sue for peace, even if almost destoryed.

[Dida]

Originally posted by player1
Maybe too much of razing or nuke using can make AI civs less likely to sue for peace, even if almost destoryed.

Maybe that is true. In the case I talked about, I razed every single one of his cities because his culture is 3 times higher than mine.

[Harovan]

Originally posted by Dida
Maybe that is true. In the case I talked about, I razed every single one of his cities because his culture is 3 times higher than mine.

No. In my current game I razed the whole Zulu coreland (leaving Shaka only a few cities that were former English, Russian and American) and Shaka came personally to beg for peace. I refused.

[Ironwood]

Originally posted by Dida


Maybe that is true. In the case I talked about, I razed every single one of his cities because his culture is 3 times higher than mine.

I have a feeling that the culture difference is rather important, as well.

[solo]

The number of turns since a war starts is definitely a factor. No matter how well or poorly a war is going for the AI, it looks like a certain amount of time must go by before they will talk or negotiate for peace. Before the patch, they would talk much sooner if losing badly, and would give up just about everything to negotiate peace, something players noticed and started to exploit. Now the elasped time figures more into the equation, perhaps as a way to limit the effectiveness of this tactic. This would explain why an AI that is quickly crushed refuses to talk, or why another that is on the verge of crushing a human opponent will stop and talk peace. The "refuse to talk" turn counter has crossed the necessary threshold to cancel that AI mode.

[Willem]

Originally posted by solo
The number of turns since a war starts is definitely a factor. No matter how well or poorly a war is going for the AI, it looks like a certain amount of time must go by before they will talk or negotiate for peace. Before the patch, they would talk much sooner if losing badly, and would give up just about everything to negotiate peace, something players noticed and started to exploit. Now the elasped time figures more into the equation, perhaps as a way to limit the effectiveness of this tactic. This would explain why an AI that is quickly crushed refuses to talk, or why another that is on the verge of crushing a human opponent will stop and talk peace. The "refuse to talk" turn counter has crossed the necessary threshold to cancel that AI mode.

I'm not so sure about that. I've had a couple of wars now that I was able to enlist 2 or 3 allies, and it wasn't to long, maybe a few turns, before my enemy was willing to negotiate a treaty. It seems to make a real difference having more than 1 ally fighting with you, and the more the merrier. At least from what I've seen.

[solo]

Willem,

Perhaps I should clarify by saying time is not the only factor in the equation. I'll stick to my opinion that there is a countdown, but that the number of turns may not always be the same in each situation, being subject to modification by such things as alliances, etc.

A hypothetical example: Suppose the standard waiting period is 10 turns. It may be shortened by dividing it by the number of opponents, making it last fewer turns, as observed in the example you provide.

[Encomium]

I am the Iroquois. I have higher scores, culture and power, than the nearby Aztecs.

For some bizarre stupid reason, an Aztec border flips over my mines, roads, and even a garrisoned fortress within one of my city's boundaries. Stupid Culture Flipping. Or cheating AI??

I refuse to leave. The Aztec AI is so dumb he claims I moved onto his terriitory and I will be blamed for any war. So be it. He being, as I said, smaller than me, eventually is crushed militarily. So he never should have went to war in the first place, or immediately made peace.

As I take town after town and city after city he does not come to me to make peace. When I go to him, after he FINALLY sees my envoy having refused to several times, he will only make peace on a Peace Treaty to Peace Treaty basis - no money, towns, techs, resources, etc. NOTHING. He refused a deal for peace with a huge force of Mounted Horseman two tiles from his capital. All I wanted was one small town near my border for peace. Meanwhile, I got a notice that "The Aztecs are building the Hanging Gardens"!! I am overruning his civ but he's building a happiness Wonder!!

Well, I eventually had to conquer every city and town on the continent, and when he only had one island town left I agree to Peace for Peace.

CONCLUSION: Culture Flipping is nonsense; and the Diplomacy AI is either retarded or suicidal.

[Willem]

Can anyone tell me what play that passage from Shakespeare comes from? The part about "strutting on stage" and "signifying nothing". For some reason that always comes to mind after Encomium has his say around here. I believe it was Hamlet, but I'm not entirely sure. It's a little out of context, but it seems to fit.

[Dienstag]

Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player
That struts and frets his hour upon the stage,
And then is heard no more. It is a tale
told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
signifying nothing.

from William Shakespeare's Macbeth Act V, Scene 5

I don't think this applies to Encomium half as well as it does to the "retarded or suicidal" AI, especially the "And then is heard no more" part.