why is this game so complicated!

[Steve Clark]

I'll post this as a rhetorical answer to a real question...

"why is this game so complicated?"

It is so complicated because they took too many ideas from the fans of civ-based games, esp. from disparate sources of Civ1, Civ2, CtP, SMAC and the List and combined them into something that does not hold together very well. That's a noble idea but most, if not nearly all, of us don't have a clue as to the realities of game design. They should have stuck to their own ideas instead of listening and incorporating half-a$$ ideas from us. This also includes "complaints" we had about Civ2 which they tried hard to avoid but now we want them back in because at least they fit. In the end, take a look at the example of SimGolf. How much input or ideas did they seek when they were designing and developing the game? They came out with an addictively playable game and now are seeking improvements and changes. Civ3 should have been the vision of one person or a few people, not some jumbled colloboration with fans. IMO.

[Worthingtons]

Load o Rubbish, Civ III isnt complicated in the slightest, at least not to me.

And surely giving us what WE want and asked for is Good right??? cos we're the ones who play the game yea

[ACooper]

Originally posted by Encomium
So be sure you are aware that in Civ III the AI CHEATS SHAMELESSLY all the time.

How does the AI cheat? You make these claims but never explain.

[Dan Magaha FIRAXIS]

Originally posted by Rothy
surely giving us what WE want and asked for is Good right??? cos we're the ones who play the game yea

When your target audience is as many as one million gamers or more, ranging from hardcore grognards to moms, dads, and kids, the "we" you're referring to gets a little hazy.

Dan

[Evil Robot]

If you want a truly complicated Civ-based game, look no farther than SMAC. Terrain warfare, atrocities, the U.N. charter, the unit designer...

Civ 3 has moved away from that.

[Steve Clark]

Dan's point has been brought up before, here as well as in forums of other games. Do you appease the hardcore grognards (hypothetically estimating at 10% of your target market) while perhaps sacrificing the 90%? Civ3 had to be a game that targets the middle ground if you want to ensure sales and enjoyment from a majority of civers, casual or not. Are we (as hardcore grognards) so self-centered that we must demand a game only be targeted to us?

[Thrawn05]

Re: why is this game so complicated!

Originally posted by janus
hey im new to this forum, and actually the hole civ seen. as ive never played any of the civ games i tried the tutorials. after i found no help or teaching there i came here. i can make cities and build stuff and manage them but i dont know much more, also could someone give me some begginer stratedgies?

by the way great forum

That's why this game is turn based, you take AS LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OONG as you like.

[RickBlaine]

Good point. At the risk of sounding grumpy, getting the hang of the basics Civ III is not that hard if you RTFM (and Civlopedia) as you play. You have all the time in the world in a TBS game. I was not connected to the Internet when Civ2 came out, and had never really played a strategy game at all before (primarily RPGs and shooters/action games). I picked up the game just fine using the above method.

[Dienstag]

*reads thread*

*pauses*



I must be a grognard! (and a hardcore one, at that)
.
.
.
...what on earth is a grognard exactly?

[MonsterMan]

Originally posted by Dan Magaha FIRAXIS
When your target audience is as many as one million gamers or more, ranging from hardcore grognards to moms, dads, and kids, the "we" you're referring to gets a little hazy.

Dan

That's where the wonderful concept of Options come in )
In a perfect world, the game would have a list of more or less complex features that the player can choose to play with or not. Wouldn't that let you include stuff without the hassle of judging if it's too complicated for the kids? To take one example, one might have the option of building both farmland and railroad as in Civ2 to get the effect Civ3 combines in railroads.

But, I understand this might make things too hard for the AI. It's a nice idea though.

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by Dienstag
I must be a grognard! (and a hardcore one, at that)
.
.
.
...what on earth is a grognard exactly?

As legend has it, Napoleon's nick name for the members of the Old Guard.

The old grumblers/complainers/drunks, or something like that.

Salve

[edit] I'm sure someone from France can correct me as to exactly what it means. Or maybe Corsica. [edit]

[MattHiggs]

Civ 3 isn't complicated.

Unfortunately it'll never be a good game because of the ****e combat system.

[notyoueither]

OK. We can all go home now. The peanut gallery has been heard from.

Nice stash though.

Salve

[DrFell]

Originally posted by ACooper


How does the AI cheat? You make these claims but never explain.

Huge numbers of free units at the start on higher levels, ships that never sink, cheaper tech rates on higher levels, cheaper unit/building costs on higher levels, and a number of other things which would be a bit easier to spot with a cheat mode (if you say the AI doesn't cheat you've obviously never played deity). Of course on the lowest level the AI actually pays more for units and techs so the cheats go either way.

[Flandrien]

Originally posted by Steve Clark
Are we (as hardcore grognards) so self-centered that we must demand a game only be targeted to us?

What I would love is a basic, easy to understand, standard game with loads of hardcore grognard scenario's.
(If that is possible of course.)