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  • Let's Help Firaxis (No, I'm Being Serious!)

    Really! Judging by the polls a significant number of people aren't happy with Civ III and only a minority are really thrilled with it. But I'm not going to suggest more complaining (really, well maybe more later) because I think I have a better idea - let's make Firaxis's job easier! Let's design the game for them - no, I'm still being serious here.

    After we are done we can submit a master design document to them - Civ III is going to make a mint (despite the flaws) but they know a sequel that makes 1/3 of their core customers unhappy kills a franchise (Batman, anyone?). So let's work together and create a Civ they can make even more money from and that we'd love. I call it a win/win senario and if Firaxis won't do it I think others might. So where to begin? How about the good things of Civ III?

    Culture (*)
    Resources (*)
    An Early Aggressive AI
    Diplomacy/Trade
    Unique Civs (with Unique Units)
    Leaders

    (*) Since you can culturally assimilate an enemy city or shaft an opponent by denying them a resource this is fair since they can do the same to you.

    So really just add the best of Civ, Civ2, SMAC, to the best of Civ3 to make a winner!

    First Focus - the Tech Tree
    Suggestions/Overview

    1. Remove the Age Limitation...yeah it's realistic (sort of) but it really, really limits what players can do by eliminating options.

    2. Far Fewer Dead-End Techs...since these don't lead anywhere they also limit a players options and encourage a linear game

    3. More Techs...but all techs should have a point or purpose - no useless speedbumps (Philosophy and Polytheism are now in themselves useless).

    4. Techs can be used to resolve other game issues...

    Geology
    The computer secretly places hidden resources on the map. When a civilization discovers Geology these hidden resources appear!

    Explosives
    Workers get the new order Demotions - basically blow up a mountain and transform it into a hill. Bombardment can now kill units.

    History
    All your Ancient buildings produce extra culture since now they are better appreciated by your people. Build Smithsonian Museum - no benefit but more culture than any other wonder!

    Hacking (from Computers, naturally)
    Resets one (only usable once) civs research back

    Patriotism (from Democracy)
    Gives your cities more resistance to culture flipping, also build the Statue of Liberty which converts foreign nationals into your citizens much faster.

    Biological Engineering (from Genetic Engineering)
    For Bio-Weapons of course. I miss Atrocities! Plus you can build the Pollution-Eating Microbe Small Wonder

    Modern Agriculture (from Genetic Engineering)
    All cities produce 1 extra food in their home space (seems small but over 50 turns you'll really notice the effect)

    Genetical Modified Food (from Modern Agriculture)
    Extra food from irrigated Tundra and Deserts

    Internet (from Computers)
    Research bonus for libraries, universities, and research labs, plus one unhappy citizen content, opens a lot of research paths

    Trench Warfare
    Defense bonus to non-mounted infantry units (popular during WW I)

    Formations
    A bonus to fortified units (less than than Trench Warfare) and gives Spearmen X2 Defense bonus vs mounted units (Pikemen are just Spearmen with a formation)

    Greek Fire
    Make those catapults really, really dangerous!

    Shipbuilding
    Vikings anyone? - makes a longboat - moves 2 spaces, carries 1 unit. A weaker (but pre-requisit for the) galley.

    Breeding
    A definate Arabian Advance, give +1 defense to mounted units and mountained treated as plains for movement purposes, better retreat possibilities

    Psychology
    Makes Universities make 1 person content and allows a Spy to Create Disorder (make 1 citizen unhappy in a non-capitol enemy
    city)

    Leadership, Advanced Leadership, Tactics, Advanced Tactics
    Allows the building of an army with 2, 3, 4, or 5 units allowed (Pentagon increases this by +1 of course).

    Capitalism
    Creates a new City option - relocate production. You can now spend 3 turns to create a network to any other city you are linked to by road, railroad, harbor, or airport and can have city A send to city B 1 unit of food, production, or commerce (New York isn't known for it's farms after all). Better, send food to a starving civ and make friends!

    Advanced Tactics (an add on)
    Build helicopters - Attack or Transport Type. Transport Copters hold 1 non-mounted unit (Infantry, Marines, etc)

    Heavy Aviation
    Build gigantic planes - to airlift Tanks and Modern Armor

    Machinery
    To build Mills (think early +25% production factories)

    Globalism
    To trade with the rest of the (non-civ) world as if were a civ (in itself), maybe they have only old techs but you should be able to get some resources/luxeries from them (even if at a high cost)

    Bureacracy, Judiciary
    Build Provincial Capitals and Supreme Court to lower corruption

    Herbalism, Germ Theory
    To block plagues and disease from flood plains and jungles

    Propaganda (after Psychology)
    Easier to convert cities, your armies get an Attack bonus or no penalty to drafting 1 citizen a turn

    Contraception (a negative Advance) <- Optional
    All cities/metropoli lose 1 food unless producing 0 excess food - represents the slowed growth of population but 1 unhappy citizen made content

    Stoneworking <- Very early
    Build City Walls and the Sphinx

    E-Commerce (after Computers of course)
    Currently Wealth transforms Productions into Gold at a 8:1 ratio.
    Economics should imprvoe this to 4:1 and E-Commerce to 2:1.

    Nuclear Theory, Nuclear Research, Nuclear Weaponry
    Now make these a deadend each one after the other! Basically force a player to learn 3-4 techs to build nukes (they do transform the game after all) and have the first nuke cost 800 shields to build! Then 700 for the second, 600 for the third, etc.

    Media (after Printing Press)
    Reduces Corruption a little (as should Radio and Television). Maybe a random factor that the Media will be "hawkish" or "doveish"

    Advanced Engineering
    For canals, silos (you don't stick nukes in cities!) and other big projects

    Theocracy/Facism
    Definitely both belong in the game!
    Thocracy units should get a +25% combat bonus when fighting to retake a city of theirs.

    Eugenics (after Facism) <- Optional
    Build bigger/better soldiers - lowers other governments opinions of you

    Feudalism (reworked)
    As a Government! You turn over a city or cities to a local regent and Corruption is now measured from the regents capital! Downside - now he's basically another Civ and will be loyal to you - unless you do weaken yourself or hurt a city under his control or he accepts a bribe! You maybe also now Offer Vassilage to a Civ you are beating.

    "The Citizens of Denver revolt again your cruel reign and proclaim themselves independant. Beware the Denverians might!"

    Security
    Lets you know when a city is going to flip before it does and weakens spies against you

    Negotation
    Not only improved dealing with other Civs but allows your units to bribe Barbarians to joining you! Allows Megna Carta Small Wonder (lowers Corruption)

    Enlightenment
    Like Philosophy - gives 1 Advance - branches to many Advances, allows Renaissance Small Wonder - civilization is allowed 2 Golden Ages (or 1 if he already had 1). Also allows Artist citizen who creates 1 Culture point/turn.

    Direct Democracy (after Internet)
    Even better commerce than Democracy but war and economy are huge risks for it

    Socialism
    Government - lose Commerce, war weariness, but cheaper to build infrastructure, slower growth, slow pollution

    Unified Government
    Despotism 2.0, you may Pay or Whip things to hurry them and your Commerce is better but you don't get along with other governments much. Has Master Plan button for Domestic Advisor - lose 1 pop in each city but trigger a Golden Age at will which will last 5-15 turns.

    Libertarian (a Government)
    All your Governors now control your cities, all you do is move military units. Great for commerce but you must spend gold to motivate a governor to build what you want instead of what he wants.

    Assembly Line (after Machinery)
    +1 Production in all cities, +1 for Factories, +1 for Manufacturing plant

    Anthropology <-Optional
    A minor Civ appears somewhere (only when first discovered - discovering civ has contact with them - other civs do not).

    Artificial Environment
    Discovered before Space parts can be built, allows for Lunar Colony (extra happyness, research, and culture, and build Space parts for 90% standard cost) but requires 1000 Production

    Guilds
    Gives bonus to Marketplaces, allows Warehouses to be built. In Warehouses owning cities a city can build Supplies for 50 shields and then use Supplies to build things - think non-moving carvans - can be moved after Capitalism)

    Social Mobility
    +1 happy face in capitol, Civs with the Expansionist attribute can now build Settlers for 1 Pop each!

    Masochism
    Your citizens grow to like cruel oppression! Using "the whip" makes citizens happy! (Geez, I need to go to sleep)

    Okay, any other ideas? I'm spent!



    We are all beta testers...can't wait for the finished version.

  • #2
    Proverbs 11
    22
    Like a gold ring in a pig's snout ...
    I've been on these boards for a long time and I still don't know what to think when it comes to you -- FrantzX, December 21, 2001

    "Yin": Your friendly, neighborhood negative cosmic force.

    Comment


    • #3
      Totally lost

      Am I a beautiful woman? I'm so confused.
      We are all beta testers...can't wait for the finished version.

      Comment


      • #4
        LOL! You could be, I suppose. Good work on the rest of the quote. You know, just The Word of God helping us to decide if your great idea (gold ring) is worth putting in the Firaxis PR machine (pig's snout).

        However, I wish you (honestly) the best of luck should you decide to move forward.
        I've been on these boards for a long time and I still don't know what to think when it comes to you -- FrantzX, December 21, 2001

        "Yin": Your friendly, neighborhood negative cosmic force.

        Comment


        • #5
          So, I'm not a beautiful woman, can I at least date one?

          Join in! Some talk about how we're so negative, yada, yada, yada. I thought this was a good place to introduce new ideas and hopefully move the game forward to a better sequel. Most of the mod polls I've read show people like the mods more than the original game!

          I think a great Civ 4 is possible and I'm willing to add in what I can.
          We are all beta testers...can't wait for the finished version.

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          • #6
            civ 1 = 1991, civ 2 = 1996, civ 3 = 2001, civ 4 = 2006?

            Or near enough to it anyway. Are you really gearing up for a game that's 4 - 5 years away? And even if it is going to happen probably wont even start development for another couple of years?

            Focus on what can be done with civ 3, or some other game entirely, because civ 4 is a long long way away.

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            • #7
              Speaking of Biblical pigs...

              "Cast not thy pearls before swine"

              ... seems pretty appropriate here, too.
              Infograme: n: a message received and understood that produces certain anger, wrath, and scorn in its recipient. (Don't believe me? Look up 'info' and 'grame' at dictionary.com.)

              Comment


              • #8
                Nice ideas Roy. Well, maybe except for the Masochism part.

                I don't see what is negative about your ideas. I think you are being constructive. I'll bet that a few mod makers are making some notes from your list, if not Firaxians themselves.

                Keep on civin

                Salve
                (\__/)
                (='.'=)
                (")_(") This is Bunny. Copy and paste bunny into your signature to help him gain world domination.

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                • #9
                  Nice idea, but this forum can't agree on the colour of the sky.
                  (Kinda red going for greyey/white).

                  Robert
                  A strategy guide? Yeah, it's what used to be called the manual.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I'm patient, if I live to 2006 I'd at least like to still play Civ4 (I'll be 38 and I'll be gaming till they stick me in a retirement center somewhere).

                    Personally I'd be thrilled if a Mod maker used even half of my ideas.
                    We are all beta testers...can't wait for the finished version.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      good to see a constructive thread
                      Co-Founder, Apolyton Civilization Site
                      Co-Owner/Webmaster, Top40-Charts.com | CTO, Apogee Information Systems
                      giannopoulos.info: my non-mobile non-photo news & articles blog

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Join Us...
                        Concrete, Abstract, or Squoingy?
                        "I don't believe in giving scripting languages because the only additional power they give users is the power to create bugs." - Mike Breitkreutz, Firaxis

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                        • #13
                          some of those ideas are excellent Roy, i hope the Firaxians have had a chance to read these!

                          nice thread, better than the moaning drivel which litters the forums.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            good post but useless. this is complete waste of time. they are not going to implement this. Asking them for so much in a patch is ridiculous. Even in an expansion.
                            ==========================
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                            Artistic and hand-made ceramics found only at www.forgiftable.com.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Dida
                              good post but useless. this is complete waste of time. they are not going to implement this. Asking them for so much in a patch is ridiculous. Even in an expansion.
                              Yes, they will not implement this. But most of the ideas are interesting, and could be used by modders of even by Firaxis itself. Plus, it is nice to see some positivity around here, just to change things a little bit...
                              I watched you fall. I think I pushed.

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