Negativity is all too common

[OneInTen]

It's not just restricted to civ 3.

It has nothing to do with quality ... there will always be people who hate something. On the big wide internet, it's pretty easy to find people who think something, well, sucks.

For example:

The Beatles (only like the biggest selling group ever)
The Queen of England (Even as an Australian who'd prefer a republic, the Queen seems pretty harmless to me)
Diablo II (which sold what, 3+ million copies? Won multiple game of the year awards. Was enjoyed by many)
The Titanic (Biggest grossing movie ever wasn't it? Obsessed fans going back to see it multiple times all over the world)
And just things in general (someone else who obviously had more time than me to make a list)

Lack of critics doesn't make something great - it makes it uninteresting, or obscure, or both.

The true measure of greatness is in the people who like something, not who hate it.

[Dida]

Re: Negativity is all too common

Originally posted by OneInTen
It's not just restricted to civ 3.

It has nothing to do with quality ... there will always be people who hate something. On the big wide internet, it's pretty easy to find people who think something, well, sucks.

The true measure of greatness is in the people who like something, not who hate it.

This is true.
But you have to remember, the difference between a great product and an inferior product is the amount and percentage of people who says this thing sucks.

[yin26]

The true measure of greatness is in the people who like something, not who hate it.

Even if that's like 5% of the people questioned...

[OneInTen]

Even if that's like 5% of the people questioned...

Especially if it's only something that appeals to a small group of people. It's minorities that add spice and flavour to an otherwise increasingly hetrogenous world.

[yin26]

Again, fair enough. I happen to like pickles and milk, for example ... but I'm not convinced that makes it great.

[OneInTen]

The point was more that if I, and everyone else on a pickles and milk forum, tell you that pickles and milk suck and that you're an idiot for producing such a stupid meal then I'd not really be proving that they're a bad meal.

I would possibly be causing myself to wonder what I was doing on a pickles and milk forum however

PS: Ewww, pickles (damn, where's the hurl smilie? )

[yin26]

LOL! Well, the point made is clear: "Greatness" measured only buy those who like it makes no sense. Surely there is more to the equation.

As for why critics of Civ3 remain on this board, I suspect you can make some good guesses.

[OneInTen]

It's not an "equation" though. Culture, despite the way it is modelled in civ 3, is not a matter of numbers. Nor is it like some would have you believe, a matter of calculating percentages.

Is civ 3 a better game than civ 2? Was Nirvana the most influential group of the 90s? Was Mozart a better composer than Bach? I don't know in an objective sense, and I don't think anyone can know.

It's all relative to the individual's tastes (In my case, Yes, No, Don't care). I'm sure I could find someone who completely disagrees with me on all 3 without any trouble.

So I say that if it makes people happy, then that's all there is to it. In a world where people punching each other in the head is considered sport, bridge is in the winter olympics, and I can eat cookie dough from a prebought tube if I want to, who am I to say what's great?

As for why people are still here, well, I'd say it's on account of the fact they're not vulcans.

[yin26]

Elegantly done. *applauds*

[Terser]

Peruse the boards of some contemporary (and not so new) game titles and you'll quickly be able to see the wheat separated from the chaff. Wheat:

An oldie.

An oldie and a goody.

And a new goody.

What do we see? Discussions about gameplay...because there is gameplay worthy of discussion. People may express dislike for these titles in the forums, but they are quickly shouted down by the overwhelming majority of players who are satisfied. And players who feel unhappy with the game don't linger like hungry ghosts--they quickly decide that the game in question is simply not for them and they move on feeling disenchanted (but not angry).

Games that are buggy and incomplete do not form tightly knit communities such as these. People who feel disappointed in a game are not going to be able to discuss gameplay issues or exult in the sheer genius of the designers. They're going to want to discuss what they feel is wrong with the game and throw out ideas on how it may be fixed. If enough people express these sentiments then-one would hope-the game's publisher would take heed and make some changes.

For most of us, a Civ title is not a game, it is THE GAME. When we complain, it is not an attack on Firaxis itself and certainly not against the people who work there--it is simply our way of expressing dismay at what this once great series has come too. Unless or until CivIII experiences some sort of revitilization, you will probably continue to see some negativity in these forums.

[OneInTen]

http://forums.civfanatics.com/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=45

Hark, is that discussion about gameplay I see before thine eyes?

[FNBrown]

Does anyone else detect the irony in the fact that a thread about negativity has probably produced some of the most civilized debate this board has seen in a long time?

[yin26]

Screw you! ( )

[FNBrown]

Ok... perhaps it was less irony and more a result of an exceptionally rare byproduct of a simple law of percentages...

... I mean, after all, even a community of total a$$es is bound to have something nice to say to each other once in a great while.

[yin26]

Apology accepted.