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Call To Power 2 Cradle 3+ mod in progress: https://apolyton.net/forum/other-games/call-to-power-2/ctp2-creation/9437883-making-cradle-3-fully-compatible-with-the-apolyton-edition
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A Slice of Civ3 Feedback From The Official MOO3 Forum
now thats a good way to start a constructive post and have a civilized discussion
Anyone with common sense knows that the term "whiner" only comes up when someone's argument dries up and they resort to childish name calling, or often in most cases these people are calling critics whiners because they simply don't like what they're reading. In other words, "Whiner" really means "I don't agree with you" or a variation of it.
Roget’s II: The New Thesaurus, Third Edition. 1995 A person who habitually complains or grumbles
Originally posted by CharlesUFarley
1) Firaxis ships a game that is felt by some - a dispointment
2) Community inquires why and how.
3) Firaxis provides lame excuse.
4) Community isn't content with response, inquires more.
5) Firaxis ignores community.
6) Community gets annoyed, tries to reason (multiple emails).
7) Firaxis provides more lame excuses.
8) Community is agitated, repeats questions.
9) Firaxis ignores community.
10) Community is pissed off, let the games begin <-- we are here.
Who gave you the right to claim the word "Community" exclusively for your cause? Isn't that discriminating people who have a different opinion, but also belong to the "Community"?
I give you another version:
1) Firaxis ships a game that is felt by some - a disappointment
2) Community inquires why and how.
3) Firaxis releases a first patch. It corrects a few light flaws, leaving the worst flaws untouched
4) Community complains again.
5) Firaxis says, that is working on another patch.
6) Community splits. Some people silently wait for the patch and hope that it will be more useful than the first one. Some people begun to criticise. That's their right as customers so far, and positive.
7) Firaxis does not respond
8) The criticism is getting annoying, because the same things are repeated over and over. Other people start to defend ("fanboy") the game. Both kinds of threads are growing into b*tch fests, because both sides end up in personal insults and name calling.
9) Firaxis engages a public beta team. The 2nd patch seems to be soon released <-- We are here.
I work as software developer myself. When getting engaged, I had to sign a rule, that I have in no way the right to tell on what I work right now, or to leak features of new releases of our software to customers. This right has only the marketing division, after the new features are approved and working. I'll face a $10000 penalty (worth, in our currency) and can also been fired, if I break this rule. Sounds familiar?
For the record (since it has been brought up here): I don't think Markos and I share any bad feelings. We vary widely on our views of how to "interact" with the developers, but we've both been at this long enough now to have our little spats and shake hands.
I've been on these boards for a long time and I still don't know what to think when it comes to you -- FrantzX, December 21, 2001
"Yin": Your friendly, neighborhood negative cosmic force.
Originally posted by MarkG
you dont have to prove the power of slic to me
I just thought you might like to have that handy in case you ever felt like playing CtP2 again Never does any harm to please the site owner
Concrete, Abstract, or Squoingy? "I don't believe in giving scripting languages because the only additional power they give users is the power to create bugs." - Mike Breitkreutz, Firaxis
Originally posted by MarkG
now thats a good way to start a constructive post and have a civilized discussion
Who said anything about being constructive, I was defending a view. When Ming and You get back on topic rather than flaming Yin for his views than maybe the rest of us will follow, until then quit "whining" and set the example!
Roget’s II: The New Thesaurus, Third Edition. 1995 A person who habitually complains or grumbles
Why does everyone feel that they look more 'right' or appear more 'intelligent' if they quote philosophy or literature?
The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition To complain or protest in a childish fashion.
So everyone that complains, or gripes about a mishap or a disapointment is a 'whiner'. Nice logic. Nope, I still don't buy it. But whatever floats you're boat.
Charles.
Last edited by CharlesUFarley; February 10, 2002, 16:59.
Originally posted by Sir Ralph
Who gave you the right to claim the word "Community" exclusively for your cause? Isn't that discriminating people who have a different opinion, but also belong to the "Community"?
Don't play dumb. You know exactly what I meant.
I give you another version:
1) Firaxis ships a game that is felt by some - a disappointment
2) Community inquires why and how.
3) Firaxis releases a first patch. It corrects a few light flaws, leaving the worst flaws untouched.
4) Community complains again.
5) Firaxis says, that is working on another patch. And the patch information was released so vaguely that a large percentage of the community (including Charles Farley) missed the announcement, so we feel the least Firaxis could do was UPDATE their bloody homesite so that EVERYONE could see that another patch was in the making.
6) Community splits. Some people silently wait for the patch and hope that it will be more useful than the first one. Some people begun to criticise. That's their right as customers so far, and positive. And rather than letting criticism construct ways to improve the game through harsh complaints and the blade of an axe, the "fanboys" are formed in a mighty crusade - to what? To save the game from being destroyed arrrrggghhhh! No, actually to bi+ch about people bi+ching, and make things worse!.
7) Firaxis does not respond
8) The criticism is getting annoying, because the same things are repeated over and over. Because you have to keep explaining yourself to new arrivals and people who jump in the conversation at mid point. Other people start to defend ("fanboy") the game. To criticise a product in order to improve it makes sense, to 'defend' or 'praise' a product won't improve the product.. Both kinds of threads are growing into b*tch fests, because both sides end up in personal insults and name calling. Yet if Firaxis gave us more information and provided better PR then none of this would be happening right now.
9) Firaxis engages a public beta team. The 2nd patch seems to be soon released <-- We are here.
I made a few adjustments in bold text, and now it makes more sense. Anything asside from that is only you're opinion and I'm not here to argue over opinion, nor do I care. My mind is unchanged on this matter until I hear from a Firaxi-Rep.
Originally posted by CharlesUFarley
I made a few adjustments in bold text, and now it makes more sense. Anything asside from that is only you're opinion and I'm not here to argue over opinion, nor do I care. My mind is unchanged on this matter until I hear from a Firaxi-Rep.
I understand. And what you write is the opinion of "the Community", and only now it "makes more sense". Charley U. Farley, you disappoint me. Your culture of argument has sometimes been better.
Originally posted by CharlesUFarley
...but thats for the individual to decide as long as this is a free expression board. No one is forcing you to reply...
I know that's a selective cut, but no one is forcing you to reply either. So don't repeat like a parrot, that you don't care what I write. You have the choice to ignore me, if you want. But as long as this is a free expression board, I have exactly the same right like you.
Originally posted by Sir Ralph
I understand. And what you write is the opinion of "the Community", and only now it "makes more sense". Charley U. Farley, you disappoint me. Your culture of argument has sometimes been better.
When I referred to the "community" I was referring to the hardcore fans that have suffered a loss from Civ3's development, I wasn't speaking for everyone. You should be mature enough to see that, but you played on my wording to favor you're point. My "culture" of argument. What does culture have to do with disagreement and indifference? Fact is, I was in the middle of discussion with someone else and you cut in with you're rudeness. Who's the disapointment here.
I know that's a selective cut, but no one is forcing you to reply either. So don't repeat like a parrot, that you don't care what I write. You have the choice to ignore me, if you want. But as long as this is a free expression board, I have exactly the same right like you.
Originally posted by CharlesUFarley
Fact is, I was in the middle of discussion with someone else and you cut in with you're rudeness. Who's the disapointment here.
Uuuh, have I been rude? So sorry for that, but... I reread my post and can't see the rude point. Care to explain?
Originally posted by CharlesUFarley
Grow up.
Another cultural achievement? And you are calling me rude?
Not gonna step in the middle of the fighting, but I did wanna make one comment (not directed at any person, or company in particular).
There is no such thing as the distinction between "business" and "personal."
Business is personal. It could be argued that there are few things MORE personal....Assuming an even vaguely competitive industry, if a company doesn't treat its customers personally, then their days as a profitable entity are numbered, cos it won't take terribly long for a competitor to come along who will, and the company that doesn't "get it" will watch as their customer base melts away.
-=Vel=-
The list of published books grows. If you're curious to see what sort of stories I weave out, head to Amazon.com and do an author search for "Christopher Hartpence." Help support Candle'Bre, a game created by gamers FOR gamers. All proceeds from my published works go directly to the project.
Originally posted by Velociryx
Not gonna step in the middle of the fighting, but I did wanna make one comment (not directed at any person, or company in particular).
There is no such thing as the distinction between "business" and "personal."
Business is personal. It could be argued that there are few things MORE personal....Assuming an even vaguely competitive industry, if a company doesn't treat its customers personally, then their days as a profitable entity are numbered, cos it won't take terribly long for a competitor to come along who will, and the company that doesn't "get it" will watch as their customer base melts away.
-=Vel=-
Exactly, and that's why alot of us are pissed off, because we feel that Firaxis is lacking that 'personal touch' with it's community. I agree with you completely.
Originally posted by Sir Ralph
Uuuh, have I been rude? So sorry for that, but... I reread my post and can't see the rude point. Care to explain?
Simple, I was in the middle of a debate with another member of this board and you rudely interupted by joining my debate opponent and slandering my views on the matter. Normally that would be fine, everybody does it. But you're important commentary turned out to be meaningless childish slanderous rant. In other words, you offered nothing to that debate, and you're only intention (from what I could see) was to get my attention so that you could feel like you're apart of the group. Well you're half right, you got my attention.
Another cultural achievement? And you are calling me rude?
Like I said before, what does 'culture' have to do with game debate? You make no sense, maybe you could elaborate on that one. And yes I'm calling you rude, and if you want to debate with me, I have no problem with that - but at least stick to topic and once you make a point, don't repeat the same point and then resort to childish smart@ass remarks. Now I was talking about how I agree with Yin on his point of view, was there something important you would like to add to that discussion, or just more snide remarks?
Originally posted by Velociryx
There is no such thing as the distinction between "business" and "personal."
Business is personal. It could be argued that there are few things MORE personal
Personal is your family...
Your Wife...
Your Children...
Your hopes...
Your dreams...
Your Health...
Things that really matter...
If you think buying a video game is personal...
I'm sorry, I have to disagree on this one. Buying a video game isn't even close to being personal... it's not a matter of more personal or less personal... it's not personal... period.
Never does any harm to please the site owner 
What does culture have to do with disagreement and indifference? Fact is, I was in the middle of discussion with someone else and you cut in with you're rudeness. Who's the disapointment here.
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