A Slice of Civ3 Feedback From The Official MOO3 Forum

[Ming]

Originally posted by yin26
Did I say "my" influence?

But you did say "WE"...
And I seriously doubt that your "WE" is having ANY effect at all on what Firaxis is doing about Civ III

[yin26]

Then you are saying that Firaxis deliberately ignores criticism of the game, which, if true, means it is doomed. Hey, fine by me. I enjoy watching the spectacle either way.

[Tarquelne]

From yin26's last long post:

"we all know"

There it is yet again! Bloody hell!

"mountains of criticism"

We all know [insert 5 paragraphs of sarcasm].

[yin26]

Yes, WE all DO know that if there were NO criticism of the game, the likelihood of it being patched in any significant way would be next to nil. This is common sense and you can't argue otherwise.

And WE also know that there IS a mountain of criticism regarding Civ3.

The above are simple truths.

See, you are confused. I never said "We all know the game sucks." Got the difference?

[Ming]

Originally posted by yin26
Then you are saying that Firaxis deliberately ignores criticism of the game,

I didn't say that... you did. I think that Firaxis has not ignored any of the concerns raised on these boards. I think they do ignore people who make personal attacks about them and their company...

There are some things that they will be able to "change"... and others, they won't be able to. By reading comments that they have made, I'm sure they are continuing to work to improve the game. I don't need them to respond personally to every little whine here to prove that they care or that they are in the process of doing something about it

[MOHonor]

Told.

[ACooper]

How can you say Civ 3 is not successful? It has sold exceedingly well all over the world.

[yin26]

Ming: Thanks for repeating precisely what my post said. Bored today?

[yin26]

I didn't say Civ3 isn't commercially successful. I said it needs to be patched in some SIGNIFICANT ways if it is going to last past 2002.

[Ming]

Originally posted by yin26
Bored today?

uhhh... you are the one interpreting what other people are saying (and doing a bad job of it)... are you bored. Maybe you should load your pirate copy of Civ III again and play a game.

[Tarquelne]

"Yes, WE all DO know that if there were NO criticism of the game, the likelihood of it being patched in any significant way would be next to nil. This is common sense and you can't argue otherwise. "

Bloody hell #2! If the above was what you had actually wrote then I probably wouldn't have argued with it. But that's NOT what you applied the "we all know" to!

You wrote: "As to this whole 'whiners aren't helping anything' argument, we all know that's simply not true."

I for one, agree that cirticism is helpfull... but most of what the self-proclaimed "critics" are spewing is better characterized as "whining."

Please, everybody, stop with the damned "we all knows", OK? The _only_ things they accomplish is:

1) Reaffirm the prejudices of those who already agree with you.
and
2) Tick me off.

Neither one is usefull.

[yin26]

Hey, it's not my problem how you mis-read perfectly clear English. Perhaps your problem stems from viewing 'whiners' in some odd category? To me, whiners are complainers. Some of them more helpful than others.

Work backwards from there to see the picture.

[Tarquelne]

"And WE also know that there IS a mountain of criticism regarding Civ3.
The above are simple truths. "

Actually, I do think that "mountain of criticism" is debatable.
There's a mountain of something.... but _I_ think that the "something" is not "criticism" but rather "whining about the fact that Civ3 isn't simply an updated and expanded Civ2 or SMAC."

"See, you are confused. I never said "We all know the game sucks." Got the difference?"

_I'm_ confused? And when did I attribute that statement to you?

"Hey, it's not my problem how you mis-read perfectly clear English."

Please point out where I did so.

"To me, whiners are complainers."

So you make no distinction between them? We all know you should.

[OneInTen]

Does anyone else remember Markos' unending support of CtP2 when it was released, defending Activision at every turn?

And then as soon as the programmers stopped posting, Activision officially abandoned the game, and said there would be no more patches, then Markos joined the ever-growing ranks of "CtP2-sucks" groupies.

You mean he was supportive of the product until there was actually evidence that it wouldn't be improved?

Hmm, sounds strangely rational to me.

[yin26]

Tarquelne:

You seem like a reasonable guy. Part of the problem here is that the moment anybody criticises this game, they run the dangerous course of summarily being called a 'whiner.' Yes, I am well aware of the difference between those who go to great lengths to support their arguments and those who make pithy remarks seemingly just to stir up trouble. Yet, I have seen the broad 'whiner brush' paint both camps rather liberally.

Yet for the sake of your call for clarification, I will amend my post above by saying that I see "constructive and consistent" criticism to be good for Civ3. Now, to many people here, constructive and consistent are oxymorons...to which I would normally agree except to say that it is, therefore, Firaxis' job to keep us more informed as to what is going on.

Yet, they don't. Thus, the consistent complaint. And, therefore, the often mis-used term: "Whiner."