Yet another AI CHEAT - Technology

[Encomium]

Five civs. I am the Iroquois. Regent level.

I had changed in the Editor scout movement values to '4', and I managed to luckily get FOUR tech advances from the goody-huts.

I check some other civs early in the game and I am FOUR techs ahead of them, and with a lot more money, too. FOUR TECHS.

Fourteen turns later, the English come to me, and GET THIS. . .try to SELL ME A TECH!!! They are now one tech AHEAD of me!!

If all four civs worked together and spent every gold in their combined treasuries they couldn't have passed me. Never.

The AI GAVE THEM tech advances after seeing I was "too far" ahead.

This is the same AI that allows various other cheats, such as ocean-going galleys - why exploration is usually done by the time we get caravels.

Firaxis, IT STINKS.

[MonsterMan]

I think your arguments are a bit silly. On those difficulty levels, players *want* a challenge. I haven't seen galleys on ocean before that civ invents Navigation - after that, galleys do just fine on the high seas.

[MonsterMan]

Btw... did you know that if you discover something no-one else has, you make it cheaper for everyone else to research it? If the 2nd most powerful power after you gets a boost from your lead, they'll discover it faster, and make it even less expensive for the weaker civs to discover it. That can explain things.

[DaShi]

AI Civs do like to trade techs like they're going out of style as well.

[Encomium]

Originally posted by MonsterMan
Btw... did you know that if you discover something no-one else has, you make it cheaper for everyone else to research it? If the 2nd most powerful power after you gets a boost from your lead, they'll discover it faster, and make it even less expensive for the weaker civs to discover it. That can explain things.

Is is AMAZING how many True Believers there are out there trying to find excuses for Civ III.

Those civs would have had to move at a rate of a new tech advance every three turns to have passed me. I watched this carefully as I deliberately increaed the scouts' MP's to get those goody-huts and see if I could maintain my scientific superiority. I didn't. And I had a four tech superioty over everyone, with 180 gold in my treasury. The highest treasury total for my rival was 12. And my civ was as big or bigger than most. Remember this was early in the game when there were no seven turn tech advances; research took a long time. BUT THEY QUICKLY PASSED ME!

There is NO explanation except that the AI gave out free techs to keep the game "even" or keep itself in the game. That is unacceptable to me.

Galleys?? At NO time should they survive in oceans. And I saw them in oceans after I spent a lot of time building the Lighthouse. The AI apparently needs neither the Lighthouse or Magellan's. I spotted once a German galley in the northern Pacific Ocean while playing a realistic starting locations scenario. Even the World Map the German sold me showed there was no way his galley could have gottgen there from a German port (too much black).

So THE AI CHEATS, and the above are just two examples.

A "challenge"?? I want a smarter AI, level to level. Not one that CHEATS and breaks its own rules, and does ILLOGICAL and silly things. That is no "challenge"; that is making a mockery of the game and wasting my time.

[Dis]

what they do is combine research efforts. 1 civ concentrates on 1 branch. Another a second branch etc. They share techs and surpass you.

simple really

[MonsterMan]

Originally posted by Dissident
what they do is combine research efforts. 1 civ concentrates on 1 branch. Another a second branch etc. They share techs and surpass you.

simple really

You would think so

[Mannamagnus]

What if all the other four civs also popped several goody huts and got tech from it? If they would trade the tech as soon as they got it each civ only needs to get one tech from a goody hut.

[achtungpanzer]

Re: Yet another AI CHEAT - Technology

Originally posted by Encomium
Five civs. I am the Iroquois. Regent level.

I had changed in the Editor scout movement values to '4', and I managed to luckily get FOUR tech advances from the goody-huts.

I check some other civs early in the game and I am FOUR techs ahead of them, and with a lot more money, too. FOUR TECHS.

Fourteen turns later, the English come to me, and GET THIS. . .try to SELL ME A TECH!!! They are now one tech AHEAD of me!!

If all four civs worked together and spent every gold in their combined treasuries they couldn't have passed me. Never.

The AI GAVE THEM tech advances after seeing I was "too far" ahead.

This is the same AI that allows various other cheats, such as ocean-going galleys - why exploration is usually done by the time we get caravels.

Firaxis, IT STINKS.

It make me when I here such silly rantings - what proof have you ? saved games ? I bet you havnt !

Firstly research gets cheaper as more civs have the research (hence others complain of AI civs "trading" techs in there turn ), other civs can pick up tech from goodie huts and if they have scouts they will have movement 4 as well. I have never seen a galley before it was appropriate (post patch of course). Since you are playing Regent and are obviously finding it a bit hard why not try the really easy levels? how about CTP2 (or if that is too easy try noughts and crosses )

[Martin Gühmann]

Originally posted by achtungpanzer
Maybe changing the message from messagebox to alertbox could solve the problem.

Of course you mean unmodded CTP2 that is actually Civ3.5 with mods you upgrade to Civ4. I had a hard time to compete in techs in my GoddMod. So you can upgrade to Civ4 or still loose with Civ2.5.

-Martin

[s3d]

Well, in my mod I struggling hard to _make_ adavntage for AI, so the game wouldn be won at the beginning industrial age

[dix2der]

I haven't noticed that AI obtains "free" techs to match your advance, but in a way it is certain that the AI cheats. We've noticed with a friend of mine that the others civs always attack the weaker spots of your empires - for example the last city where you haven't upgraded your two spearmen to pikemen. I know it's possible to do investigation, but not on all the cities.

But you know, that's not a reason to hate the game: the AI can't be as efficient as a player and Firaxis had to find ways to balance powers. Sometimes, when things are really going bad, you can reload, not the AI

When in the tournament party, just after the destruction of the last russian city, Moscow re-appeared from nowhere with three spearman, a settler and a group of two spearman / two archers, despite my blocade of the mountains to not let them go through, I first became green, then I told myself "Gosh, this IS a challenge"

Keep playing!

[Martin Gühmann]

Originally posted by dix2der
But you know, that's not a reason to hate the game: the AI can't be as efficient as a player and Firaxis had to find ways to balance powers. Sometimes, when things are really going bad, you can reload, not the AI

Of course the AI can be made more efficient. But you won't find a perfect AI in commercial product really. They want to make a lot of mony with a minimum of resources. So they have to find an compromiss. But to skip ZOCs and stacks is a bad compromiss as already someone has it implemented in a far better game.

-Martin

[Libertarian]

When in the tournament party, just after the destruction of the last russian city, Moscow re-appeared from nowhere with three spearman, a settler and a group of two spearman / two archers, despite my blocade of the mountains to not let them go through, I first became green, then I told myself "Gosh, this IS a challenge"

[...Stuart Smalley voice...]

Now, look in the mirror and repeat after me. I deserve it. Because I'm good enough, I'm smart enough, and, doggonit, people like me.

[achtungpanzer]

Originally posted by Martin Gühmann


Of course you mean unmodded CTP2 that is actually Civ3.5 with mods you upgrade to Civ4. I had a hard time to compete in techs in my GoddMod. So you can upgrade to Civ4 or still loose with Civ2.5.

-Martin

CTP2 is a nice looking game but its unbalanced by the "army" principle (12 tanks = super weapon) and poor diplomacy. Civ3 is much better (except for not being able to move units in stacks NOT fight as a stack) as the game is more baalnced. I like the corruption/culture flipping as within the bounds of a PC its the best way to model the real life difficulty of invading another nation and absorbing it into your own. Civ2 was very boring in that context.

What makes me is that there are real bugs in Civ3 and it would be better if these are not confused with those who cannot think beyond Civ2 concepts (invade, invade, never trade techs, get ahead tech wise and never make peace! was my style like many others i am sure). I like having a large but not dominate civ in civ3 where i really would a fight on my hands if all the other civs ganged up on me. Strategic resources and all that tech trading (ie if you are 4 ahead SELL THEM!) make sense and i like not having any coal in my empire as i had to go and get it (remember the Japanese 1941 only 18 months of oil left?). I might try stealing all the oil and watch the other fight me for it...much better than winning yet another city. The lack of ZOC's feels better as well as they have caused me more fights outside of cities - real armies tend to fight in the field!