Playing in Different Languages

[MrWhereItsAt]

Yeah.

Perhaps this has sparked off some of those bloody longwinded anti-American threads in the OT forum...

Or is Infogrames not American and I'm barking up the wrong tree again?

[Harovan]

Originally posted by Willem
If I were the German people, I'd declare war on Infrogrames!

So we did, at least a part of us. I wrote both Infogrames and Firaxis a letter. I decided to boycott Infogrames (no Wiggles, no Patrizier II AddOn etc.) and refuse to recommend their games to my pals. And I won't buy more games from Firaxis, unless they fire Infogrames as publisher.

By the way, hi ColdFever!

(EDITed misspelling, but there may be enough of it left...)

[Libertarian]

Or is Infogrames not American and I'm barking up the wrong tree again?

Well, it started in France, where it was founded by Bruno Bonnell and Christophe Sapet in 1983. It's pretty global now, though.

[ColdFever]

Originally posted by Willem
What right do they have

As Infogrames holds the right of the "Civilization" brand AFAIK they hold the right to do an exclusive translation. But then they officially wrote that they wanted people to modify the game according to the personal "creativity and interests", and the Civ3 package even has a readme how to do a translation, so this for us was an invitation and a permission to do so:

http://www.civ3.com/devupdate.cfm

I even have an unofficial email from a nice Firaxian wishing us good luck. But Infogrames Germany obviously has another opinion on that, here a quick translation from the official statement:

http://www.infogrames.de/news.php?NID=27

"The game Civilization III is copyright protected ... if somebody has plans to change parts of the product or to use elsewhere, the corresponding person or group has to apply with the copyright owner or a legal representation (in this case Infogrames) to receive a written permission."

[ColdFever]

Originally posted by Sir Ralph
And I won't buy more games from Firaxis, unless they fire Infogrames as publisher.[I]

Well, as Infogrames hold the rights for the "Civilization" brand, this would mean we would not get anymore Civ from Firaxis, so this option is unthinkable.

But as I doubt that Infogrames USA even knew of the german fan project and the legal prosecution by Infogrames Germany, I personally will allow myself to buy all interesting titles in the form of the US original version (Civ3 expansion and Unreal Tournament 2, once the stuff will be out).

[Harovan]

Originally posted by ColdFever
To my knowledge there also is a russian approach to do a "russan surface mod" (but I do not know for sure, as I can't read the pages):
http://civ3rus.narod.ru/

Yes it looks like a translation efford (I can understand Russian). I can't state anything about the state of completion, because I won't load it at my computer and probably lack the fonts anyway. The fanbase seems not to be so big and as far as I can see, they still have problems running the mods.

All I can say is: Zhelayu uspeha! Good luck guys!

[Willem]

Originally posted by Sir Ralph


So we did, at least a part of us. I wrote both Infogrames and Firaxis a letter. I decided to boycott Infogrames (no Wiggles, no Patrizier II AddOn etc.) and refuse to recommend their games to my pals. And I won't buy more games from Firaxis, unless they fire Infogrames as publisher.

By the way, hi ColdFever!

(EDITed misspelling, but there may be enough of it left...)

You should have contacted the media, or started a campaign. If the general German public knew about it, I think they'd be outraged. It could cause such a diplomatic stir that Infrogrames would be forced to back down pretty damn quick. The odd thing is, they started out as a European company, if I'm reading their web site info correctly. You'd think they'd know better. You'd think ANY company would know better. I can understand not doing it themselves, but to block others from doing so is simply outrageous.

[Harovan]

Originally posted by Libertarian
Well, it started in France...

Poor x0darap, his chances to make a French translation mod are really not so good.

[ColdFever]

Originally posted by Willem
I can understand not doing it themselves, but to block others from doing so is simply outrageous.

There is a misunderstanding here, I am afraid. They wanted to do a translation, but their release date was announced to be March 2002. So we asked them if we could help or if they wanted to help us to get something done to improve the Christmas sales.

Originally posted by Willem
You should have contacted the media, or started a campaign

As the fan project went pretty big (even the TV wanted to do a report about Civ3 and the loyal fans) the media already knew all about the project and the interdiction. In fact (I believe) the huge success of the project in the media was the final reason for Infogrames to stop it, as it probably posed a threat to their entire German division (as people could get used to the idea to buy only the US originals and let fans handle the rest).

[Harovan]

Originally posted by Willem
You should have contacted the media, or started a campaign. If the general German public knew about it, I think they'd be outraged.

It was in Slashdot as well as a couple of times in the Heise forums (IT related online news), and people were outraged. I did what I could to spread my mispleasure. And I will remind people in due time (when the localized version will be released).

[Willem]

Originally posted by ColdFever

There is a misunderstanding here, I am afraid. They wanted to do a translation, but their release date was announced to be March 2002. So we asked them if we could help or if they wanted to help us to get something done to improve the Christmas sales.

As the fan project went pretty big (even the TV wanted to do a report about Civ3 and the loyal fans) the media already knew all about the project and the interdiction. In fact (I believe) the huge success of the project in the media was the final reason for Infogrames to stop it, as it probably posed a threat to their entire German division (as people could get used to the idea to buy only the US originals and let fans handle the rest).

Well they certainly chose an odd way of going about it. They could just as easily have established some controls and guidelines, rather than force an outright ban. It seems to me like they're just shooting themselves in the foot with that kind of response. All they've really succeeded in doing is damaging their public image. I'm sure there have been a "few" clandestine translations made since then, as it's not something that they can actually enforce. In the face of the inevitable, you may as well go with the flow.

[Harovan]

Well, both Infogrames and Firaxis had been informed by ColdFever and his team a long time ago. Firaxis was even cooperative and helped with the translations. Infogrames ignored the cause for whole 4 weeks and brought then the lawyer mace instead of friendly asking to stop the project.

That was the reason, that most people got mad at. A friendly explanation before starting a legal action would have at least saved their face.

Infogrames must die!

[ColdFever]

Originally posted by Sir Ralph
I will remind people in due time (when the localized version will be released).

Please let it be a polite reminder.

1) I have the slight hope, that once the official german version will be out, Infogrames will be so sportsmanlike to allow an "alternative" fan translation for customers of the US version

2) the Infogrames lawyers still did not close the case on me. So any new trouble may come down hard on my shoulders again

Actually I think the position of Infogrames Germany is understandable from the better knowledge we have now: they are independent from Infogrames US, they have a business to run and to pay their staff. I just wish they would not have responded to us fans with lawyers, as we never intended any confrontation and were able to understand their motives.

[Harovan]

Originally posted by ColdFever
Please let it be a polite reminder.

Don't worry.

[Willem]

Originally posted by ColdFever

Actually I think the position of Infogrames Germany is understandable from the better knowledge we have now: they are independent from Infogrames US, they have a business to run and to pay their staff. I just wish they would not have responded to us fans with lawyers, as we never intended any confrontation and were able to understand their motives.

Well yes, I can understand their reasons, but they're approach certainly leaves much to be desired. They could have turned the whole thing to their advantage if they would have worked with you instead. Business people can be sooo stupid sometimes.