Top Things We Miss from SMAC

[Blacken]

I'd vote for social policy-stuff, but I don't like all of your stuff. I think that the New Deal would be overpowering (I build a lot of tiny cities defended by like a rifleman) for expansionists.

Some of the others seem overpowered, too.

[Unregistered]

*ALL* of the above!!!

heh,

[BeBMan]

Re: Top Things We Miss from SMAC

Originally posted by DilithiumDad
/rant
**Note: I hearby declare this thread to be a Civ2-free zone! I am sick of Civ2/Civ3 comparisons because I never played it! I am a SMAC-aholic! And I am not alone!**
/rant

Yes, the AI in Civ3 is better than in Civ2...

[AnnC]

Originally posted by DilithiumDad: Jimmytrick, SMAC is not dead and Leahcim and I are up for a rematch anytime. You confederates were the ones that WIMPED OUT of our rematch, not we Yankees!

DD is right, jimmytrick. After you discovered the "social scene" at Mplayer (to put it euphemistically), you abandoned our game and left us high-and-dry.

DD, that's a great list. When I get time to consolidate my notes, I'll add a few items to it. Thanks for posting this.

[GeneralTacticus]

Things I miss:

1. The ability to be sure of what the effect I was going to do (e.g. if I switch to Market I'll make another 200 ECs per turn, but five bases will riot, so I won't, knowing when number of bases would cause unhappiness)

2. Design workshop - I could actually build units for specific tasks; it would have to be different for Civ, but it could be like having swordsmen with bronze swords, then iron ones, ships with oil engines, coal ones or gas ones, etc.)

3. Formal alliances, instead of just informal ones; Other leaders who actually had recognizable personalities, the U.N. council.

4. Ability to alter the landscape.

5. Pollution with a greater effect than just leaving a certain square off-limits for a while.

6. Global warming that was actually effective.

7. The feeling in diplomacy that I was talking to a person, rather than a faceless nation.

8. Nukes that worked realistically.

[notyoueither]

Dammit, I miss Noodlejets too.

I wish they'd bring them back!

Ann Lasagnacruisers. They were good too.

Salve

[DilithiumDad]

General, I agee with you about more challenging consequences of pollution and global warming, and more formal alliances especially submissive pacts.

It was nice to able experiment with different SE models in SMAC, but in Civ3 with a year of anarachy in between it would be impossible for the Domestic Advisor to accurately predict the effects of a government switch.

notyou, I don't miss the air combat model in SMAC, which was unbalanced and made the game a cakewalk against the AI as soon as you got Doctrine Air Power. Air units are still useful in Civ3, but almost too weak.

[DilithiumDad]

Continuing my list:

7. Specialists that actually do something! Switching back and forth from city to F1 screen, I was shocked to learn that not only do you only get one measly beaker from Scientists, but IT IS NOT SUBJECT TO FACILITY BONUSES! So even with a Library, Univeristy and Research Lab you still only net one beaker. It is FAR better to get even one gold piece from working the land than to have a Specialist. For one thing, this "feature" (bug?) seems to violate the promised benefit of Libraries and Universities --they are supposed to increase all research, not just that from working the land. For another thing, they remove the strategic choice from SMAC that was always a matter of great debate --worker or specialist? Now the answer is "Worker, always, under all circumstances until all tiles are used". The only meaningful use of specialists is hiring entertainers to trigger a Golden Age (excuse me, We Love the King Day ).

[Qilue]

Only one thing I can think of right now, real cruise missles.

I generally turned random events off after losing way too many bases to meteors.

[DilithiumDad]

In hundreds of SMAC games, I only had the asteroid once. I probably deserved it in that game, because I had 5 times of might of the #2 faction and it was not even 2200. The asteroid destroyed about 8 Secret Projects and 3 core bases and made the game unplayable. So if you take it easy on the AI and let them develop, you won't get the asteroid! Talk about "leveling the field", though, it really levels everything!! But many people mention asteroids as their excuse for turning off random events. The moral is that random events should not be so awful that they make you want to quit. Just a challenge to engage you in the game when things have gotten too routine.

[DilithiumDad]

8. "Go to --base" This command is much more important than stacked movement. It would eliminate the need for stacked movement and was already implemented in SMAC. If you pressed "G", you got a list of cities you can go to (including only those that are accessable) and could sort the lost by name or distance. If the unit was an Alien Artifact, it told you which bases had an unlinked node. An equivalent function in Civ3 might give you a list of cities and indicate which of them contained barracks. I would kill for a feature like that in Civ3! And I am certain I am not alone!

[DilithiumDad]

9. AI factions ganging up on the human player with multiple coordinated attacks and trade embargos. What kept the mid-game engaging in SMAC was the "AI gang-up". As explained in the Primus guide, the AI factions become increasingly hostile as you expand your empire, especially at Diety level. At a critical point, they all gang up together and declare war (except for that wimp Morgan!). The critical point is when you are two time stronger than the #2 faction. The programmers decided this was the point where the player appears to be "running away with the game" so all-out war from all AI civs is needed to put the brakes on the human. In single-player SMAC, this is a really effective challenge. Contrast that to Civ3. Instead of being nice when you're puny and weak and roughing you up when you get too big for your britches, now your culture rating is the main factor. The bigger and more powerful your faction, the more culture points you accumulate, the better your relations and diplomacy. This is OK up to the point where you catch up with the AI, but then it just creates too much predictability and boredom. If the next patch of Civ3 were to include the "AI gang up" subroutine, it would go a long way to maintaining the challenge.

[Carver]

Something I don't miss from SMAC: giving up a tech when you loose a base. If I had the tech lead I was always nervous about taking enemy bases - if you can't fortify well the same turn and loose the base the next turn you give up tech - agravating.



However, the planet busters were much more realistic than civ3's nukes (and CTP BTW). If you drop a 100 megaton warhead on a city of 1 million, 500,000 people aren't going to survive.

[Qilue]

Just thought of another.

Before the infinite-missle-range bug was fixed, games were usually a nervous time when Yang and Miriam were armed with planet busters. Or even when any faction had a lot of conventional missles, you knew if a vendetta was declared, you would get treated to all of them in one turn.

Civ3 (or even post IMR bug fix SMAC) doesn't have that same level of tension. At least in SMAC, I could fix the bugfix by giving missles much longer range.

Edit section -
The 'meteor impact' which did finally cause me to turn off random events didn't actually hit one of my bases. Deirdre was the lucky recipient and it totally screwed her for the rest of the game making it one of the more boring ones I've played.

[Akka]

Originally posted by Carver
Something I don't miss from SMAC: giving up a tech when you loose a base. If I had the tech lead I was always nervous about taking enemy bases - if you can't fortify well the same turn and loose the base the next turn you give up tech - agravating.

There was an option to allow or disallow the tech grabbing by city conquest, and it was an obvious option that appeared righ before you started a game.