sth against AI's annoying city founding everwhere

[Manstein3]

Most annoying to me is the AI's constant city-founding whereever possible. This is seriously damaging overall gameplay, for example the use of other options: Has one-one seen the AI build a colony? Me not. It is simply not necessary because it builds a city instead. And you can build a city anywhere!!! It will perhaps not grow over 1, 2 or 3, but the AI doen't care...

A mod which uses CIV III as we face it now can stop AI's city founding in several ways:
First: As any city founding square has irrigated terrain, it is useless to not allow irrigation since 19. century (by linking it to chemistry or sanitation) because the AI will found cities of pop 1 everywhere. (I tried that out)

You have to change your map to NO GREENLAND ON IT. You have to change plains, hills and forest to zero food. And irrigation is not allowed at all (above reason. Any city-founding square would be irrigated from the very beginning of playing, and the AI can get along with its strategy...)

So use the terrachanging instead, from x to greenland to allow more food. Before the possibility of terrachanging (which should be made available in 19th century) you have to rely on special resources like wheat, game, fish, whale and flood plains to build cities. These resources deliver more food as currently defined. I would double the numbers. By this you get your ancient civs near big rivers with flood plains like the Nil and near excellent wheat, wine, game or fish resources. And the rest of the terrain is simply NOT fit for cities. You have to use colonies to get your special resources out in the desert or in the mountains...

Another possibility could be to change the civilization's way of developping to perfectionism (building more fortresses and perhaps even colonies instead of little foolish towns in the middle of nowhere - near me)

[MrWhereItsAt]

Jeez. There's radical and then maybe unplayable...

How could you grow, develop techs or even build anything without a decent number of cities?!?!!!??

Isn't this what Civ is all about?!?!?!?!?!

[Manstein3]

I tried it and it works. You have to edit your map though, to allow at least 5 or 6 very good regions for high culture. You have to put your wheat and fish symbols in larger numbers than normally on the map, and a few big rivers with flood plains near it. Then almost normal gameplay is possible - AND the annoying AI's city founding has come to an end!

[HugoHillbilly]

This maybe a dumb question, but did you manage to get terraforming to work through the editor? If so, HOW the hell did you do that???

[imgod2u]

Ya, I found the lack of ability to terraform land to be really annoying (especially when pollution strikes and causes terrain to change).

[Manstein3]

sorry HugoHillbilly

I played not far enough... I thought, terraforming would work like in civII

Then only thing I see to better food situation in modern time is another special ressource (can you add one? if not, change cattle for example, make it available, when medicine or sanitation is developped)

I know this is lame and they have to change the game for the better as soon as possible

[Green Giant]

Whats the problem with the AI expanding fast? Thats a GOOD thing. I believe most people like AI's that provide a challenge. I have seen the AI build colonies, though it is rare. This is smart as colonies are generally useless except in the very early stages of the game.

Go to the Stategy forum and get some strategies for keeping pace with the AI civs in expansion. It helped me a lot.

[Willem]

Re: sth against AI's annoying city founding everwhere

Originally posted by Manstein3
This is seriously damaging overall gameplay, for example the use of other options: Has one-one seen the AI build a colony? Me not. It is simply not necessary because it builds a city instead.

I have.

[Manstein3]

Green Giant
I like the AI being a challenge, but not by primitive cheating or not using the options the game is designed for. It is bad game programming and/or bad AI-implementation to build crap little cities everywhere. It forces me to go to war to conquer these cities ... so it drives me to become warmonger. Didn't they intend to develop a game where I could decide on my own? Didn't they get cultural border into the game for that reason? Alas, it does not work as planned...

[tuckson]

Hmmm, Actually I use the same thing when trying to enter another (large) continent a bit later in the game. Find a single square and drop a city on it. The fine Civ3 gives the city it's own culture radius of 1 square to each side, so it's a nice start to attack from.

[Baldrick]

Guys, you should not worry too much about crappy little towns on continents that you dominate - just let them grow - then, in my experience, you culturally assimilate them anyhow. This is because they tend to be:

(a) isolated from their mother continent,
(b) newer than your existing cities.

You just need more patience to do this. I admit it's tempting to attack - but that CIV stays mad at you for a long time after.

[Grrr]

Originally posted by Baldrick
Guys, you should not worry too much about crappy little towns on continents that you dominate - just let them grow - then, in my experience, you culturally assimilate them anyhow. This is because they tend to be:

(a) isolated from their mother continent,
(b) newer than your existing cities.

You just need more patience to do this. I admit it's tempting to attack - but that CIV stays mad at you for a long time after.

Methinks you're right!
However, I find it a real nuisance to have to go through everyone's territory to get to a particular enemy. In Civ2 you could just go via glacier or mountain range, now you need right's of passage, but I don't want to give that because they build cities in those 1x1 tiles that haven't yet become my territory, but are in the middle of it.

BTW, I haven't seen them invade Antarctica yet!

[justjake73]

One thing I hate about CivIII in the vein of this thread is what happened to me in the last game I completed. The French moved a settler and bowman across my border. I said Get Out, OK Said J d'A. Didn't do it. Finally 3 turns later it comes to me threatening war, their units are ejected, but into the nearest unclaimed area - surrounded by MY cities! a 2x2 area!

Luckily it was desert, so she avoided my borders and moved somewhere else. But its like get out, OKey dokey, they move farther in, get OUT NOW, okey dokey, one step farther in, GET OUT OR ITS WAR!!! okey dokey, sorry bub, I'm not in your "territory"anymore! >

[Willem]

Originally posted by justjake73
One thing I hate about CivIII in the vein of this thread is what happened to me in the last game I completed. The French moved a settler and bowman across my border. I said Get Out, OK Said J d'A. Didn't do it. Finally 3 turns later it comes to me threatening war, their units are ejected, but into the nearest unclaimed area - surrounded by MY cities! a 2x2 area!

Luckily it was desert, so she avoided my borders and moved somewhere else. But its like get out, OKey dokey, they move farther in, get OUT NOW, okey dokey, one step farther in, GET OUT OR ITS WAR!!! okey dokey, sorry bub, I'm not in your "territory"anymore! >

But isn't that what normally happens? Nations have always been rattling sabres and bending the rules, that's how they test their enemy's defenses and resolve. Take a look at Kashmir, the Indians and Pakistani are constantly doing that sort of thing to each other, have been for decades.

[Manstein3]

you are right that aggressive behavior is 'normal', for instance city founding at the heart of the neighbours land.
I wonder though why tthis practice was not getting on my nerves in civ II in the same way. I think in civ III the AI's focussing on the human player is even heavier than in civ II. Example: I staying at the south share a relative large continent with another two civs, which sit in the middle-north. They instead of exploring and developping the huge northern territory of the continent constantly spread out south. As I fix a borderline, they even begin to ship or travel units through my territory to found cities SOUTH OF ME. this is annoying because it is bad strategy and forces me to go to war.

In my opinion this is a AI cheating to put pressure on the human player. Against another AI civ they would not do it, they would develop their own heartland instead.