Disenchanted

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

How did I miss this thread this long?

I am absolutely in agreement with the vast majority of sentiments posted here. Something is definitely amiss in the CIVIII world. I just can't force myself to finish another game of CIVIII try as I might.

OTOH, I dug out my SMAX CD and the whole immersive game sucked me back in. This morning I sit bleary eyed in front of my computer screen again victimized by 'just one more turn syndrome'.

I think Comrade T suggested it best in his analysis of TBS game players being of two flavors Sandbox and Powergamers. I always considered myself a sandbox player looking for new and different gambits, toys, strategems etc. (I loved the unit workshop approach to SMAC). Taking these toys aways makes CIVIII only fun until the all too few nuances are discovered. I'm currently finding these said nuances to be drying up. Feel like I'm that famous physicist (who I can't remember Niels Bohr perhaps??) at the beginning of the 20th century who said something to the effect "In the next twenty years we will have discovered all there is to know inthe universe." Perhaps there will be an Einstienian revelation to re-energize this game but for now I'm not gambling on any quantum game mechanics being discovered.

Starting up another game of SMAC,

Og

[Zachriel]

Originally posted by Ogie Oglethorpe
I just can't force myself to finish another game of CIVIII try as I might.

I rarely finish Civ3, but love every game. Often I just play "ancient conquest," or "rush for J.S. Bach." Sometimes I do "D-Day Invasion," but often quit before that time.

The game is Civ3, not Conquer-the-World3, so building a happy Civ and defending against foreign invasion is often enough for me.

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

Zach,

Exactly. I'll start a game get mid-way into the middle ages or at best into the industrial ages just to play with some tanks and then .......

Sure it's fun early on in ancient and middle age era using despotic whip and crushing your enemies but after you've secured your continent .....

Ho hum..

Og

[OneInTen]

So is it fun or real when your Army is turned against you by the population of a recently captured city? IMO it's neither, and that's what Civ 3 offers.

I can't speak from experience as to whether it's fun when it happens, since I've never had a wartime city flip ... but I do know it's fun to have a city the AI has captured flip back to you!

[Comrade Tribune]

Originally posted by Ironikinit
Less talk and more results would be nice. If you think you can do better than Civ III, please do, I'd really like to see it.

Talk is cheap.

'Fast Results and No Talk' is what got us CivIII. I prefer to discuss my ideas thouroughly BEFORE my game goes Gold.

[Comrade Tribune]

Originally posted by OneInTen
If you want reality, step away from your computer and walk out the front door. Games are supposed to be fun, and when the choice between reality and fun has to be made, the later should be chosen.

Fun is intangible; for me, a Sim is the more fun the more realistic it is. Btw, didn´t you complain about a lack of REALISM, if I don´t include the possibility of creating a grass-roots style government? Could you sort out your priorities?

[Zachriel]

Originally posted by Ogie Oglethorpe
Sure it's fun early on in ancient and middle age era using despotic whip and crushing your enemies but after you've secured your continent .....

Start a new game and have more fun?

[Zachriel]

If you think you can do better than Civ III, please do, I'd really like to see it.

If anyone makes a playable strategy game, let me know. But if they are just starting , then that is bound to be months or years away. Meanwhile, I'll play Civ3.

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

Ok,

In an effort to tone down what has become on these forums as yet another dart throwing fest. Let me say first off I normally abhor whining and complaining. And in fact I do enjoy the early part of the CIV 3 game as it now stands. Unlike someothers, I think some of the innovations were great. I love the strategic resource approach (but think it could have been tweaked), culture and borders etc.

But....

Let me compare and contrast why the late game holds no joy. (I use SMAC but could just as easily use CIV2 as an example.) Being a sandbox kind of player, I like to see the late game offer significant builder and/or warring options. In SMAC the ability in the late game to aquire an almost exponential means to create units a plethora of late game facility build options and SP's(read wonders) was an allure unto itself. (I don't care that I'm crushing the AI at this point, I want to see what a quantum reactor dis wave, blink, best weapon psi armored grav tank can do) To a lesser extent this holds true for CIV2 as well. OTOH what this means is the AI is incapable of masterfully dealing with these options and gets completely outclassed by a human opponent. The point really tho' is as you go up the technology pyramid in CIV3 your options become less and less thus allowing the AI some ability to deal with the complexity of the game. It also means tho' that we players who play the late game simply to find new and different nuances don't have that option available to us. So the option is as Zach says start over and play another primitive era game.

Now the real question comes into play. Which game will hold my attention longer and provide me more enjoyable play time? The one that is challenging yet limits my options as the game progresses or something like SMAC. For me its the game where I continually learn something new and that means the longer the game goes on the more options I have available to me. If this means I have to sacrifice some improved AI game management, I'll sacrifice it. The way I see it I'm currently using only about half the game b/c of late game tedium and lack of late game options and as a consequence I'll get tired of the game twice as fast as I did of SMAC. At this point I can't say I'm totally sick of either one, but CIV3 feels incomplete vs. what I consider a more fully featured SMAC(x).

Anyhoo,

Jus my two cents added to the over full bank of dissent.

Og

[Comrade Tribune]

***Notice***

***Renamed working title of my project to 'Gold, Guns and Glory'.***

Because the game will focus on Economy ('Gold'), Warfare ('Guns') and Intangibles, such as Culture and Prestige ('Glory').

+++Official Thread started in the 'Alternative Civs' forum. Check it out. I will continue to add info there, as much as my time allows.+++

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthrea...threadid=40827

[Comrade Tribune]

Now is the time to tell me what you want to see in Gold, Guns & Glory! I am going to post a Weekly Wishlist in the Alternative Civilizations Forum: http://apolyton.net/forums/forumdisp...d=115&x=11&y=8

This week: Innovations. What Technologies, Inventions and Discoveries do you want to see in the game?

[Nideca]

risk of rebellion

Now That is a great Idea to Counter ICS instead of current Corruption model.

[Encomium]

Originally posted by Zachriel


I rarely finish Civ3, but love every game. Often I just play "ancient conquest," or "rush for J.S. Bach." Sometimes I do "D-Day Invasion," but often quit before that time.

The game is Civ3, not Conquer-the-World3, so building a happy Civ and defending against foreign invasion is often enough for me.

With Civ II, if a game seemed to be going nowhere and getting tedious I'd go to Cheat Mode and play as the barbarians with their map. I could quickly run through a whole lot of turns and see where that scenario was going - if anywhere. And then maybe resume it, or quit.

With Civ III, I don't even have a Cheat Mode!!