Analyzing a Firaxis statement

[Grim Legacy]

Ah the forums are finally accessible again... what joy... to find the same dull bickering upon return.

And as irony would have it, the more interesting discussions are becoming rarer, even in the Strategy and Creation forums.

At least I can rejoice myself by using an appropriate icon:

[Grumbold]

Re: If I were Firaxis...

Originally posted by RobC
If I were Firaxis ...I would ask each major forum/website ... to appoint ONE person to submit questions. They could choose questions by voting or something more sophisticated like the 'modding-up' that is done on slashdot when picking the top 10 questions for an interview...I would then ONLY take questions from this one person, maybe three questions once a week, or 5-10 questions once a month or something like that, and do my best to give people some helpful information without making any specific promises or raising expectations any higher than they already are...

They went one better and created "Ask the Civ Team" to which anyone can submit questions. Unfortunately some posters still feel they have a right to be read and answered elsewhere on the basis that one or two Firaxis personnel have occasionally done so in the past.

[Libertarian]

Among my favorites are the many questions answered after the ninth of November last year.

Hey! I think I've just discovered the additive identity!

[gachnar]

Originally posted by Libertarian
Among my favorites are the many questions answered after the ninth of November last year.

Hey! I think I've just discovered the additive identity!

Has it ever occured to you that perhaps you are one of the reasons they dont answer questions?

Everything Firaxis has ever said to you has been used as reasons for you to complain. You have never apologized for your personal attacks against them. You have never apologized for your attacks against Firaxis. You can't even see why you should apologize.

I dont think you are even trying to help. You took other peoples ideas, re-asked them for the twentieth time, then insulted Firaxis for not giving you the personal attention you wanted. Every time you try to apologize, you slip in 2 more insults. You take over any thread in General that mentions the fact the game might be enjoyable, and try to convince people who enjoy the game that they should not.

I can honestly say that you are showing the lowest level of respect I have ever seen.

[Venger]

Originally posted by gachnar
Has it ever occured to you that perhaps you are one of the reasons they dont answer questions?

Oh yeah, it's one guy in one forum that keeps that company from answering questions from customers who paid $50 for their product.

Venger

[Grumbold]

What questions have you posted to them since 9/11/2001? Personally I haven't asked any so I'm not entirely surprised there hasn't been an update.

[CharlesUFarley]

Originally posted by jbrians
What the hell would be the point of telling people what they MIGHT do other than generating higher expectations? Even for features that they are working on RIGHT NOW they may get cut if they turn out to be too hard for one reason or another. If you knew half as much about software development as you claim to, you would know that the feature that.

Because no matter what a game company does or endures, there will always be high and low expecations of the variety. People will either "hate" a product or they will "love" it either way there will always be the element of criticism and disapointment, they cannot avoid this! And let me explain to you about software development since a few members of my family are currently employed with some large Canadian software firms. Nothing is impossible to code, only complicated. How they spend their time is just as important as how the product turns out. In other words Firaxis (in my opinion) not only rushed Civilization III, but they avoided some 'tough' areas during development to avoid burning more time. Hence why the product was rushed and eventually turned out to be a disapointment to the mod community. And the value of keeping the mod-community well informed plays hand in hand with consumer reviews and a posative flow of "word-to-mouth" hidden market advertising. And the hidden market *IS* eventually going to affect the overall company reputation. In short, they are being asked to tell us what they are working on so we can better distribute our thoughts and criticism, and possibly eliminate it. Sounds fair to me.

There is no point in trying to please agitated 13 year-old kids. There are people like you for every game, and you will not be happy for any length of time no matter what they do. In fact, you stated that you WERE satisfied after Dan finally said that they knew late-game tedium was an issue and weren't sure whether or not they would be able to work on it. Yet 2 days later you could no longer stand not having your voice heard.

Now see an analagy like "13-year-old kids" reminds me of the assorted variety of language used by the "fan-boy" element of the community. First, it holds absolutely no substance or truth. And second, by resorting to simple "name-calling" and "slander" because you don't agree with someone reveals that you have more of a problem with it than they do. Not to mention how tasteless it is to defend in in-animate object like a game. You tell these people to stop complaining because it won't gain result, and here you are "complaining about complainers" aren't you in a sense the fool who follows the foolish? As the saying goes, who's more of a fool, the fool himself or the fool who follows. Makes sense to me. And there you stand in neon lighting.

Ultimately your goal is to get as much personal attention as possible from Firaxis employees and feel like you are a part of the game development process because you cannot break into the industry on your own merits.

Yeah that's always been my personal goal, in fact I'm kind of jealous that Lib got to sleep with Sid's wife. That's where my heart has always been, forget the game! [....fling....] You honestly believe that phycological babble about people wanting attention? I'm putting my money on the fact that the game wasn't what they wanted, and they're pissed off as a result. It's only human to act so when disapointed. Here's another saying for you... let the person without sin cast the first stone! So in other words you've never been let-down and acted on it, in your entire life? [....Guilty....]

Charles.

[Libertarian]

I dont think you are even trying to help.

Trying to help what, pray tell?

[CharlesUFarley]

Originally posted by gachnar


Has it ever occured to you that perhaps you are one of the reasons they dont answer questions?

As mentioned earlier it's going to take more than one voice to cause even a ripple in the water when it comes to Firaxis-Customer relations. Be realistic!

Everything Firaxis has ever said to you has been used as reasons for you to complain. You have never apologized for your personal attacks against them. You have never apologized for your attacks against Firaxis. You can't even see why you should apologize.

Apologize? What is this a dorm room? They're a game company you fool. Little bits of data and text has absolutely no effect on them personally, and it never will. And when one person's opinion begins to sway the development process world-wide, then and only then will an apology or formality be required. Geez.

I dont think you are even trying to help. You took other peoples ideas, re-asked them for the twentieth time, then insulted Firaxis for not giving you the personal attention you wanted. Every time you try to apologize, you slip in 2 more insults. You take over any thread in General that mentions the fact the game might be enjoyable, and try to convince people who enjoy the game that they should not.

I can honestly say that you are showing the lowest level of respect I have ever seen.

Another line of crap.

Forum Terrorist: New orders, instead of complaining about the product, we have a new objective; argue with everyone until everyone world-wide burns their copy of Civ3 and the stores that carry them! Oh and take no hostages, not a single posative posting can be made in the forums! Get on it people!



Charles.

[Libertarian]

Charles, Venger, et al: Don't forget meeting of secret clique tonight at eighteen hundred.

[Heliodorus]

It's not Firaxis, it's the culture

Jbrains or some such, by extension of statement, inferred that I'm a 13-year old kid suffering from some sort of psychological or intellectual agitation... Just to correct the official record, I'm 33.

All of this discussion about Firaxis' PR is interesting, but to me is circumnavigating the point, which is that this culture instills in its citizens the idea that stating negative information is detrimental to the speaker. It's not JUST Firaxis engaged in this, it's virtually everyone, and the most egregious practicioners are politicians, followed only narrowly by corporate entities.

Examples:
Issue: Firaxis promised things during the design and programming stage of Civ3 that they did not deliver with release.

Analysis: Firaxis certainly knew that MP and a few other major and minor items were not going to be able to be included in Civ3 before release (say, at least 3-6 weeks for the CD burn/market delivery cycle). They had the option to announce during that time that MP and those features were NOT present in the released version, but they CHOSE not to. This is a lie of omission. They let stand a false perception because to dispel it COULD mean that sales of Civ3 would suffer.

Philosophical point 1: This is dishonest. This is in my moral universe the equivalent of lying. It is tantamount to SAYING they would include MP for the game (or whatever feature you wanted) with NO intention of ever implementing it. But then, in my moral universe I think telling kids that santa claus is real is morally objectionable...

Philosophical point 2: There's nothing you can do about it EXCEPT call them on it, and most importantly learn from it by NOT ACCEPTING it, and using caution in believing anything anyone ever tells you about something they profit from. Caveat Emptor is over 2,000 years friggin old!

Now, in our current post-release conundrum, we debate whether or not Firaxis is obligated somehow to provide us with details about its future plans for the game we now own. Given my libertarian leanings (pardon me, Lib), I think Firaxis is free to do anything it wishes about sharing with us its future plans, whether that be to fart in our general direction and laugh at we silly-consumer types, or to show us the code and solicit ideas from us on how to implement new ideas...

That being said, the modern culture has created a very impressive array of tools with which to communicate a wide variety of misleading information. In very fact, the use of the terms "spin," "public relations," and "damage control" belies the cultural acceptance of lying and concealing real information (I would say truth, but who among us wants to debate that concept on this forum other than me).

Jack Nicholson's character said in A Few Good Men, "you can't handle the truth" but that's not what he meant: What he meant was that he couldn't handle the way we would handle the truth...

So to expect Firaxis to reveal their actual thinking and methodology (and specifically, the shortcomings therein) is naive, in my opinion. The corporate culture simply can't accept putting itself in a vulnerable position. They cannot stop themselves - it's a sad pathology - made worse by the fact that we accept and encourage it institutionally.

Speaking of Libertarian himself and his curious sojourning for information - my apathy betrays me. I admire his persistence greatly. Still, I find myself resisting the urge to tell him to move on, for this is among "the little things" about which I wish we wouldn't get so upset. But then, maybe he isn't upset so much as he is principled, and I am projecting my repressed disappointment onto him because I am reluctant to admit it....

To belittle him for his efforts is evidence of arrogance and envy, and I pity you who feel it necessary to pen polemics aimed at him personally.

Sometimes, while I'm reading and writing these posts from my little cubicle at work, I think that my powers of perception and expression are completely wasted in this job...

[Libertarian]

Splendid expository, Helio. Very meaty. As for me, I expect to take a sabbatical from the boards when our copy of Exile arrives. (Not kidding... we're that hard up for some decent gameplay.) It's gotten to the point that, frankly, I don't even care now what Firaxis does with its game. I feel all icky for having bought it. It is, after all, a matter of principle.

[Heliodorus]

Lib,
I have added at least two words to my personal vocabulary list because of your posts, not to mention tracking down the Latin of Ockham's razor, and then you go and say that you feel "all icky inside"...

I sincerely hope you plan to apply for a patch beta tester position. I'm also amusing myself to no end imagining how you would explain why you should be chosen with such things as:

So Jeff Morris can finally sleep at night;
Because you are single-handedly qualified to sermon for the redemption of Sid Meier's soul;
et cetera...

[Zachriel]

Originally posted by Libertarian
It is, after all, a matter of principle.

It's a game.

[Libertarian]

For which I paid. Besides, what praxis cannot be called a game?